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An
Oral History
With
T.B.
Bankston
Interviewer:
Worth Long
Tougaloo
College Archives
This interview
was transcribed as part of the Civil Rights Documentation
Project.
Funding for this
project was provided in part by the Mississippi
Humanities Council,
the National Endowment for the Humanities, and
the Mississippi
Department of Archives and History.
1999
Biography
Mr. T.B. Bankston was born
in October in the early 1900s, on a Mississippi plantation.
As a child, Mr. Bankston helped his father farm in the Duck
Hill community. As a young man, he worked mule teams with
a breaking plow to clean new pastures. From various "root"
healers, he learned to make herbal remedies out of plants,
animals, and minerals. As an adult, he married and raised
a family by sharecropping, scrapping cotton, and hunting.
During the civil rights movement, he found the courage to
stand up to the Ku Klux Klan.
Table of
Contents
Early childhood 2
World War I veterans 3
Plowing with mules 6
Cooking in a chimney 8
Herbal remedies 9
Farming in Grenada 14
Scrapping cotton 17
Arrested 26
Ku Klux Klan 30
Automobile accident 35
Near drowning 37
AN ORAL HISTORY
WITH
T.B. BANKSTON
This is an interview for
the Civil Rights Documentation Project. The interview is with
Mr. T.B. Bankston and is taking place on October 16, 1999.
The interviewer is Worth Long.
Long: OK. Can
you tell me your name and where and when you were born?
Bankston: Now,
that's something I can't tell you because I don't know exactly.
All I know, it's in October. It was in October. See, when
we were coming up, the people wouldn't tell you. Your parents
wouldn't tell you because they said it would make you mannish.
You know, make you leave home. All that. They wouldn't tell
us. Papa didn't tell me until I got twenty-two, and that was
in thirty-nine. He told me that, then. We was down at Tie
Plant, a place called Tie Plant on Ben McElrat's[?] plantation.
Fellow called Ben McElrat.
Long: OK. Now,
do any of your brothers and sisters know how old they are?
Bankston: Not
exactly.
Long: What's
the closest that you can think of? Who know?
Bankston: Would
know?
Long: Yeah.
Bankston: Well,
I'm the oldest.
Long: Tell
me how old do you figure you are?
Bankston: Mister,
look, when I told you I was forty-three when I come in, I
was older than that, and I know it, but the day I don't know,
because Papa told me--.
Long: So, you
were forty-three when you came to--
Bankston: I
was forty-three, and I came here in fifty-five.
Long: Came
to what place?
Bankston: Biloxi,
here. Over in Gulfport, and then come on over here.
Long: I see.
Bankston: See,
Papa wouldn't tell us. Him and Mama separated in thirty-nine.
In thirty-nine. And I was around twenty-two or twenty-three
years old then. You understand?
Long: Right.
Bankston: Well,
he let me start to smoking when I got twenty, and I had been
smoking for years, two or three years before then, because
I was smoking up there on the Dan Jordan Plantation.
Long: Now,
where was Dan Jordan Plantation?
Bankston: That's
out north of Duck Hill. Place called Duck Hill. That's out
north of Duck Hill. Out towards that Indian reservation. You
know where that Indian reservation [is] up there?
Long: Up near
Duck Hill, Mississippi?
Bankston: That's
the other side of Duck Hill. Way in yonder. About sixty or
seventy miles back yonder way.
Long: What
were y'all doing up there in the first place?
Bankston: Farming.
Long: Tell
me about it.
Bankston: Well,
Papa moved up there to try to, you know, to raise us up and
get us a fair living. You know, where he could get something.
Long: But he
moved from where?
Bankston: From
down there at Duck Hill. Out north of Duck Hill. That's way
up in there, around Swetman[?] and Lodi[?]. You heard talk
of Lodi?
Long: Yeah,
mm-hm.
Bankston: Well,
it was up in there around Tupelo. We moved up in there on
a plantation up there they called Mr. Henry Riley's[?] plantation.
Called it Steeden[?] Place. They called it the Steeden Place.
That's where all them bad Abrams[?] was, killed colored folks,
you know. I forget that little, old creek. Anyway, it's up
there. You remember when Uncle Sam bought that, took all that
land up there when they put Camp McCain[?] up there? And they
found that white lady, Ms. Lily Day[?] had all that big, old
pretty house. They didn't tear it down. You know they didn't
tear down Mr. John Bauden's[?] place when Uncle Sam bought
that, up there.
Long: You mean
that was World War II?
Bankston: Right.
It was before then.
Long: Wait,
now. It was before World War II?
Bankston: Sure
was. Them other soldiers, that war, they were coming in with
them leggings wrapped around them up in here and them old
hard hats.
Long: That
was World War I.
Bankston: Well,
let me tell you. You might would know. We were big, old boys.
Sometimes, it would be a month or so, folks be coming through,
two or three men, sometimes one man, with all that big pack
on his back. They done been over there fighting war, and they
were coming back home, walking. You know, they'd sleep all
beside the roads and everywhere. They had them leggings up
to here; wrapped from here up. You know how them leggings
was on them.
Long: Yes,
sir.
Bankston: And
them big, old Army coats way down here. Well, that was then.
Long: What
kind of looking men were they, coming back?
Bankston: White
and black. White and black, coming back out of the war. See,
they just put them so far and turned them loose. They had
to walk home.
Long: Is that
right?
Bankston: Right.
That was way back yonder. Well, this other war, they--.
Long: How big
were you, then?
Bankston: When
that come up?
Long: When
you saw them?
Bankston: Oh,
I was like this. (Gesturing.) I was like that. If I could
get to Mr. Dan Jordan's cemetery and find that tombstone,
I could tell you about how old them is. That was way back.
I tell you what. You remember when Lindbergh flew over Mississippi,
the first plane.
Long: When
he flew overseas?
Bankston: He
come over here.
Long: I didn't
even remember it.
Bankston: Well,
he come over here. Lindbergh. Well, that's when my brother
run from the plane, talking about, "There's a devil up there,
flying." (Laughter.) And then, I'll tell you something else.
You remember when that high water was in thirty-two? Wasn't
it? Thirty-one or thirty-two. And that colored woman paddled
that boat, that old skiff, across the Mississippi River, and
had that pig and two babies and a dog in there? You know,
she made it safe to this side. What was the year? Was that
in thirty-one or thirty-two? That high water.
Long: It was
in the thirties.
Bankston: Right.
Long: High
water.
Bankston: High
water drowned all them folks' cows and hogs and things. And
that woman paddled across the Mississippi River with her children
and the dog and the pig.
Long: But,
let's see this, and then you can tell me something else, but,
the people came from the war before the high water came?
Bankston: Right.
They would sometimes be two or three men, walking. You know,
just going. They done give out. They just was going. And whenever
they'd get tired, they would lay down there and sleep there,
because, you see, they would stay warm with the clothes they
had on. And they had them leggings. You know them leggings,
what I'm talking about. You wrap them on up to here. They
had them on. Them old Army coats, with them old, big shiny
buttons. And them old hard hats.
Long: Right.
They were roundish-looking hats.
Bankston: Round.
Right. Hard. I had one one time. Somebody took it. I had one
I dug up out of the woods. Somebody done took it.
Long: Yeah.
So, let's go back and be sure that we understand that your
name as far as you know is what?
Bankston: Well,
what my really name was T.B. Bankston.
Long: T.B.
Bankston?
Bankston: T.B.
Bankston. B-A-N-K-S-T-O-N. Bankston.
Long: I see.
Bankston.
Bankston: But
now, when they set up in the war, drafted me out to service,
Mr. Johnny Heath[?], I think it was, he was the head of the
local board in Grenada, and he told Mr. David "White Dude"
Whittaker[?], David DuBard[?] that he going to do away with
my name. And he done it.
Long: Now,
what was the reason he was doing that?
Bankston: Keep
me from going overseas. Keep them from sending me overseas
and have me taking aspirin that upset my heart. You understand?
Long: Right.
Bankston: And
I go to where they welding at, and sit there all day. They
have me to sit there all day, so, say that would upset my
eyes, too. You know.
Long: So, what
were they going to do with you if you didn't go?
Bankston: Well,
they were going to send me on in the service.
Long: I mean,
I know that the draft board was going to take you, but the
people you were working for who had you--.
Bankston: They
were working me on the plantation. And in them deadwoods,
cleaning them new grounds. Cleaning, building pastures for
miles. Because Uncle Sam would let them have them cows to
raising them on halves, you know.
Long: Who did
the plowing?
Bankston: The
plowing? Me, and all the rest of them.
Long: What
kind of? Did you have a one-horse team or--?
Bankston: Well,
I had, sometimes I had two mules. Sometimes four mules. To
a breaking plow.
Long: I'll
bet you don't remember what the names of the mules were?
Bankston: Well,
I tell you one of them. See this scar? See right here?
Long: Yeah.
Bankston: I
used to wear a leather bracelet on there.
Long: Right
down by your wrist?
Bankston: Right
over here. Big leather band, I used to wear it on this. OK.
This mule named Bill. We got him from overseas. His name was
Bill. He done killed two or three men. He had three splits
in his ear, and he hit at me to get me and busted that off
my arm. So, I put him in the stable and tied him with a trace
chain to the stable and whipped him. And he got mad, and he
was going to kill me. See, he was going to kill me. His name's
Old Bill. He a big yellow mule. And he weighed 1200 and something
pounds. He was going to kill me. He come from overseas. You
know, back then, we was eating the mule meat. You know, the
big middling, like that. You don't remember that big middling.
Mules. That was mule and horse meat. We eat it when that war
was going on.
Long: I see.
And why did they bring him to Grenada?
Bankston: Well,
he was a good mule. He was a good mule, but he was bad. His
name was Old Bill, big yellow mule.
Long: As a
work mule?
Bankston: Work
mule. Weighed 1200 pounds. Old Bill. You could put him to
a log this tall and turn him loose. In other words, just carry
him to where you land the logs and carry him back to the log,
and you'd stay there. He'd come. He'd carry that log to somebody
at the landing, from here to my house, unhook him, [and] he
would come back to you. And you hook him to another one, and
he'd do the same thing. You didn't have to follow him. He'd
go back to the log.
Long: He was
already trained?
Bankston: Already
trained. He was a mule. Aw, he was a mule.
Long: What
would make a good mule?
Bankston: Well,
really, to make a good mule, Mister, look, you've got to feed
him, and curry him, and keep him clean. Bathe him, and all
that. You know we used to have to ride them out in them lakes
when we'd come out of the field in Lake Henry and bathe the
mule and shear him off. Then we'd turn them loose with the
horses and feed them. You see. But every evening, we had to
bathe them mules. See, but us colored folks, we just curry
them good, you know, and take old greasy dishwater and bathe
them. You know. Rub them and keep their hair pretty and black.
And feed them all kind of--. You know, like we take medicine,
we'd feed the horses and mules that, and it makes a real good
mule. It really do. And mules get down sick, you can take
turpentine. You'd be surprised what you can do with turpentine
with them. His navel. You take a teaspoon, put it half full
of turpentine, put it under that mule's navel, you can see
it going up. Put it that far from it, and you'll see it going
in his navel.
Long: Isn't
that something?
Bankston: Just,
boom, dry. And if he's sluggish, you'll see him go to moving.
You'll see him go to moving. And get that Brown Mule Chewing
Tobacco and chip it up in his food, you know. Brown Mule.
Long: Now,
what will that do for him?
Bankston: Well,
that cleans him out. It'll make him stronger. He'll eat more.
See that tobacco gets the worms and things out of him. You
understand? And you better not have that old homemade tobacco.
You chip it up in his food, you know. In his corn and stuff.
You understand? Like them charcoal you burn out of oak wood.
You put that in his food, too. See, he eats that. See, that--.
Long: And what
would that do for him?
Bankston: Make
him, give him more pep. Oh, sure, man. Give him pep. Hogs
the same way. Hogs, cows. You know a cow got a wool in them,
don't you?
Long: Yeah.
Bankston: Well,
you know what to do to get them wools out their back, don't
you?
Long: No.
Bankston: Turpentine.
Long: Is that
right?
Bankston: Turpentine,
coal oil. Just drop a little on him. He'll come out himself.
Some of them be that big. Buried in their back and in their
shoulder. Just like a rabbit. Just like a rabbit.
Long: So, you
use turpentine and kerosene or coal oil?
Bankston: Right.
Long: And what
it'll do? It'll make the--?
Bankston: Make
that wool come out of them. Out of the cows, too.
Long: The wool.
Bankston: Wool.
They call them wool. They'll be in their backbone. Some of
them be that big. You see them cows with them knots on them
and their hair standing up?
Long: Mm-hm.
Bankston: That's
a wool in there. Well, you've got a rag under him with that
and touch him. Rub him. He coming out of there. He coming
out. See, if you don't, somebody kill that cow and see, when
they skin him, they see that wool fall out, they won't eat
him. You see? You get that all out of him. Man, it's a lot.
Long: In the
old times, people used to do a whole lot of things.
Bankston: Ooooo.
That's the way I learned it. You ever eat a rabbit cooked
in the chimney?
Long: No.
Bankston: You
ain't never eat nary one? Look, you dress that rabbit; you
musk that rabbit.
Long: Musk
it?
Bankston: Musk
it. Get that musk out of it. You get all kinds of seasoning,
and mix it up. And get that aluminum foil and wrap him. First
wrap him in that wrapping paper. Then, wrap that aluminum
foil around him. Put all that seasoning on him. Thick. Wrap
him good. Then, get you some brown paper and roll him up in
there. Go up on top of the house. Lay you a piece of iron
across the chimney and put a piece of wire on it. Let it hang
down about that far. Let him stay in there two or three days.
Go in there and get him out.
Long: Now's
that's hanging down about--?
Bankston: Three
or four foot. You understand? Tie him in the middle of that
rod laying up there on top of the chimney.
Long: Hang
him in the chimney?
Bankston: Hang
him in the chimney. Let him stay. You know in the winter when
it's real cold, you keep a fire all day and night, don't you?
Long: Yeah.
Bankston: Well,
you let him. Don't--. Hang him up there. Let him stay two
or three days. Go there and take him down and put him on your
table. Take your time and open that up. And you talking about
eating! You're going to eat bones and all. All that seasoning,
clean through. You'll chew the bones up. See, a lot of peoples
don't know that. Now, if you want to do it right, so you won't
ever have to take no medicine, you get you a hickory tree.
You get you a hickory tree, and cook him with that. Then,
make your bread up and put them ashes back, and put that meat
in there. Put your bread over in there and cover it up with
them ashes. And let it cook, and eat that. You don't have
to take no medicine.
Long: What
medicine would you have to take, generally? What medicine
would it replace?
Bankston: Any
kind of working medicine. That there will work you out.
Long: It'll
work you out?
Bankston: Yeah,
I say it'll work your cold out of you. Hickory ashes. And
this here red oak is good. But, see, these folks don't know
nothing about this.
Long: What
did your mama give you, say, if you seemed like you were going
to have the flu or something?
Bankston: Jimsonweed.
Jimsonweed. Or else hog goo.
Long: Hog goo?
Bankston: Hog
goo. And you know what a hog pistol is under here? Where his
pee come out? When you dress him, you cut all that out, you
know? Well, papa take that and cut it up and split it open
and wash it out, and he put it in a skillet and fries it till
all the grease come out, and he strain it. Then he get him
a little tallow and put in there and put it in a jar, and
when we get a bad cold, he give us a pill of it.
Long: And then
what happens?
Bankston: Pneumonia.
(Laughter.) You've got pneumonia? Ain't nothing. Ain't nothing.
Ain't nothing to it.
Long: What
happened to that old time medicine?
Bankston: Them
folks just quit making it and the law went to--. You know,
they were going to put me in jail until I told them that I'm
doing it to try to save the folks. I'm not doing it to try
to make no money. And the law told them, said, "Leave him
alone."
Long: Now,
what you were doing, you were doing old time medicine?
Bankston: Yeah.
Just like you got tonsilitis. Say "T., my tonsils. I'm going
to have to go to the doctor."
I say, "No, you ain't."
You say, "T.," say, "Will you
cure them?"
I said, "Yes." When I cure
you and you hear tell of the law got me, going to lock me
up, you're going to go up and tell them, "Don't." Ain't you?
Long: Right.
Bankston: Well,
that's the way it was. They were going to lock me up. They
said they were going to send me to the pen. But I was helping
them free.
Long: Now,
did they call you an old time doctor?
Bankston: They
wanted to.
Long: Did they
think you were a root man?
Bankston: I
was.
Long: You was
a root? What? What was you?
Bankston: Look.
Just like you got tonsil trouble? You tell me. Tell me, and
I'll cure you. One dose. If I don't, I'll eat you. Just like,
you got diarrhea? And, I went to my uncle. I didn't know he
was sick. I stayed about ten miles from him. I asked Aunt
Freddy[?], "Where is Uncle Sam?"
She said, "He in there." Said,
"T., you know Sam is dying?"
I said, "What's the matter
with him?"
She said, "He got the diarrhea,
and the doctor can't cure him."
I went in there. I said, "Uncle
Sam?"
He said, "Uhn." Foam all down
him, just white. His eyes couldn't hardly open.
I said, "Uncle Sam, you want
me to cure you?"
He said, "Uhn-huhn."
I said, "Aunt Freddy, where
your hoe?"
She said, "Go around in the
chimney corner, T. Or else, look in the garden and get it."
I got it, went down the path, and I go to a blackberry briar
root. You know what a blackberry is. Not no dewberry, now.
A blackberry. I dig it up. Go to the well, and draw me a bucket
of water and wash that root off and let you chew it. And you
swallow one swallow. Don't swallow two. It'll lock your bowels.
And in a few minutes, you'll hear your stomach go to saying,
"Rrrrrrrr." I laugh at you. But you will get scared. Think
you're dying. Look, the next morning, you'll be up.
Long: Isn't
that something?
Bankston: This
fellow we had--. You heard them talking about Big Bill, here?
Bad Big Bill used to be on the police force.
Long: Yeah.
I heard of him.
Bankston: Well,
his wife's sister is in Natchez, now. And her brother was
at my house at night, and his mother called from up there
down here, and asked was Charlie there. And she told them,
"Yeah."
Said, "Could I speak to him?"
Say, "Yeah." Well, she told
him, said, "Charlie, your mother on the phone." About eleven
or twelve o'clock. Said, "She got to be in the hospital in
the morning. To live." Say, "She ain't eat in three days.
Won't eat nothing." Said, "And she gone to smelling." Her
name is Tempe[?].
So, he said, "T., I heard you
say you could cure the tonsil trouble."
I say, "I can."
He say, "You can't."
I say, "Yes, I can."
He say, "Will you get up and
tell Mama what to do?"
I got up. I told her. I said,
"Ma'am?"
She said, "Yeah."
I said, "Well, you get your
knife point. Get some sulfur and pick up what you can pick
up on the end of a knife point. Get a piece of brown paper."
Now, you know brown paper sack? "And tear it like this. And
put it right in the middle of it, and roll it up like you're
rolling a cigarette. You open your mouth and blow it down
your daughter's throat. It's tastes like flour." You know
how flour tastes?
Long: Yeah.
Bankston: Well,
that's the way it is. If you've got to take two doses, your
tonsils is gone. You don't take no more. No more tonsil trouble.
I raised all of my children, sisters, and brothers. Never
been to the doctor.
Long: That's
sulfur?
Bankston: Sulfur.
You know sulfur. Old yellow sulfur.
Long: Yeah,
I know. That stuff you put around the house?
Bankston: Right.
Long: Yeah.
Now, what that do when you put it around the house?
Bankston: Keeps
the snails and snakes and things away. But you take that.
That's the best medicine in the world. They tried to outlaw
it to keep us from going, so we can go to the doctor. They
tried to outlaw it and say it's poison. But I was raised up
on it. I got some at the house now.
Long: So, you
wrap it up in a--? What kind of paper?
Bankston: Look.
You know a paper sack. Now, a brown paper sack. You tear you
a piece about that long and about that wide. (Gesturing.)
Long: So, that's
about as long as your hand, then?
Bankston: No,
about that long. Like a cigarette. Just like. Look a-here
now. You look at me. You watch what I'm doing now.
Long: I see.
You took out your knife.
Bankston: Mm-hm.
You see where I can take this knife and pick up on the end
of it. I put it right in the middle of it. And, look, I take
that paper. I roll that paper just like a cigarette. You open
your mouth and you stick it down in there and blow it in there
on your tonsils. It tastes like flour. You know how flour
tastes. No taste, is there?
Long: Uhn-huhn.
Bankston: Well,
that's what it is. You never feel nothing.
Long: So, you
blow it one side and then blow it on the other.
Bankston: No,
just stick down there and blow it one time. Blow it out. That's
it.
Long: One.
That's it.
Bankston: That's
it. And like you've got diarrhea. You know, there's a lot
of folks die with the diarrhea, and I sees them when I go
to the hospital, and I go to telling them, I say, "Y'all,
I can cure you."
"I'm scared of that. I'm scared
of it."
Look, you know ice? Ice. Ain't
poison, is it?
Long: No.
Bankston: We
live off of ice, though. I told a woman lived next door to
me what to do to save her mother. You know what she told me?
"I ain't going to kill my mother." Nothing but put some ice
in a bag, and put it to your leg. And put a band around it,
and freeze it out.
Long: What
part of your leg?
Bankston: The
part where it hurts. Got ice in a bag. Put it behind there
and hold it till you can't. When you can't, you take it off.
When you feel like it, put it on. Freeze that cold. Then you
take stuff to run it on out of you. And she told folks, "T.B.
is wanting me to kill my mother." I wouldn't do that, Mister.
I won't do that. I know too much.
Long: What's
the worst thing you done cured?
Bankston: The
worst thing? Well, I cured my uncle. I cured mules, hogs,
cows, everything. I say, everything. They get down and can't
get up, and ain't going to get up, but when I get through--.
That white man stopped me. He had the cows. He give them all
to me, and the cows. He had other ones around back. He stopped
me. He said, he was going to let them die. He'd let them die
before he'd give them to me. I had a pasture full. See, you
know, the calves used to be born. You know, they used to give
colored folks the calves. He quit that.
Long: Why would
they do that?
Bankston: You
making too much money. You making too much money. Look at
me. I moved on the place. The man told me, said, "T.B., I
don't want nothing but half of your cotton."
I said, "Yes, sir." I planted
thirty acres of corn.
Long: Now,
where was that?
Bankston: That's
up there at Grenada. I'm from Grenada. The place they called
the Hard Time Plantation. The Hard Time Plantation. Out towards
Coffeeville, a place called Coffeeville. And I planted thirty
acres of corn. I planted about fifteen or twenty acres of
sorghum. You don't get none of it. He done told me, "Plant
two or three acres of peanuts." That's everything, you know.
Well, I know he's going to take half of the cotton. Well,
I made so much corn, and I went to the co-op. I didn't know
what to do. I heard the folks talking about the [co-op]. I
went there. I told them I had so many hundred bushels of corn,
and could they get the co-op people to come get some load.
He said, "No, T. I called Arkansas,
way in the North, some big feed places." Said, "And they sending
them eighteen-wheelers in here."
I said, "Well, do that." And
the boss man seen them two eighteen-wheelers in there, he
come down there. (Laughter.)
And he said, "What these so-and-so's
are doing?"
I said, "I had them come in
here and pick up this corn."
"Well, they don't pick up no
more, T.B. That's too much money for you."
I ain't going to tell what
he said but, "That's too much money for you."
Long: You split
the cotton with him, but you didn't--.
Bankston: Well,
he told me I could have the corn and the peas, sorghum, all
the other stuff. He wanted half of the cotton. That's all
he wanted. He don't want nothing else. See, he ain't ever
had nobody that would work like me. You know. I was making
100 bushels to an acre on corn. See.
Long: And how
many acres did you have?
Bankston: About
thirty acres of corn. See? And the next time, you know what
he told me?
Long: What?
Bankston: "T.B.,
you don't plant but five acres of corn."
I said, "Yes, sir." Planted
cotton and stuff for him, and I had to work it.
Long: What
did you buy with the money you got?
Bankston: Money?
Well, the money that he didn't get, I bought me a truck, buy
me food, buy me cows, buy me some hogs to feed my family.
You understand?
Long: How many
did you have by then?
Bankston: How
many in the family?
Long: Yeah,
how many? Was this your own family by then?
Bankston: Yeah,
this is my own family.
Long: Tell
me who they were.
Bankston: Let
me see, my boy, John Lee. Oh, wait, to start, my stepboy.
Let me see, James Lee, Billy, Willy Louis.
Long: Willy
Louis?
Bankston: Willy
Louis. They found him dead in the North.
Long: Yeah.
And who else?
Bankston: And
Ollie B. And Banella.
Long: Banella?
That was a girl?
Bankston: Right.
That Charles' mother. We named her after her mother. See,
her daddy raised her. He was a drunkard, and she was good
to me, and I wanted her. And I married her. That's the only
time I ever been married in my life. So, we had children.
Long: You had
stepchildren and--?
Bankston: I
had three stepboys, and I raised them. But they pay attention
to what the white folks and the rich colored folks. See, when
I go in the field in the morning, and come out at three o'clock,
it's a bale of cotton, on whatever I empty it on. They tell
me to empty it on, it's a bale of cotton. I'd get my rifle;
I'd go over in the swamp and kill squirrels or coons and bring
them home and skin them to feed my folks, and I kept them
fed. You understand? So, they didn't like that. And so, there
was a preacher called Reverend Monroe[?].
Long: Who was
he? Reverend?
Bankston: Reverend
Monroe. He was a preacher.
Long: Monroe?
Bankston: Monroe.
Reverend Monroe.
Long: That
kind of sounds like Montgomery or Reverend?
Bankston: All
I know is Reverend Monroe.
Long: Monroe.
Bankston: That's
right. His children up there now. They crazy about me and
my chaps. Well, the white man went over there and went to
gigging about [how] many it was. And he was a young man, like
me, but he had them children. He told me that. He said, "T."
I said, "Sir?"
He come over in the field where
I was picking cotton. I stopped. Sat down on my sack with
him. He said, "Tomorrow morning," said, "you'd better get
in the field." Said, "Son, I'm coming at you."
I said, "Reverend Monroe, you
can't touch us."
He said, "Son," said, "I'm
going to tear you up." He said, "I'm quitting now."
I said, "Y'all chose all of
them." Wife and all. His wife was out there. Had a little
wife, but all them children. They went home, and they had
a shoat about that tall. They killed that hog, and they all
eat a bellyful of meat. It ain't nothing to laugh about. Well,
the next morning, the news hit us. He eat so much meat till
he died that night. Reverend Monroe did. He was going to try
to race with me. They couldn't do nothing with me.
Long: Now,
you mean you could do one-hundred?
Bankston: A
hundred what? A hundred pound of cotton?
Long: Yeah.
Bankston: A
hundred. Seven and eight hundred [is] what I pick every day.
Long: Where
you put it?
Bankston: In
my sack. Look, Mister, when I leave the cotton house, I leave
with three nine-foot sacks. Nine-foot sacks. You can put 110
[or] 120 pounds in one sack. When you turn around and put
this on [there] and hold that sack.
Long: Pack
it in.
Bankston: Pack
it with your both foots. You got them other tied on the back.
You don't have to quit and go up yonder to get your sack.
You got your sack right here. Untie one off of here and untie
one off the back. And just leave them there till you fill
them all up. And my children. Ooooh! My wife didn't go to
the field. I told the man. He got sore with me till he found
out something. He didn't have to come in the field over me.
He didn't. And he will tell anybody down
there. He'd tell anybody, "You don't have to go in the field
on T.B." You look at me. I'll tell you what I did. After he
started taking the corn and stuff on halves, I used to go
around on everybody's place, like you had a place.
And I would say, "Mister, y'all
through picking cotton?"
"Yeah."
I'd say, "Can I have your scrapping?"
And you'd tell me, "Yeah."
I'd say, "Would you put it
on this piece of paper for me, please?" And then you put it
on your paper and put number 100 on there. This is what's
on my truck. The white folks put that on my truck. Number
100. And they put it on there. Well, when everybody get through
picking, I take my boys and my truck with my side plates on
it. I put four sacks in there for myself. Put four in there
for every one of the boys and the girls, on my truck. We're
going over in the Delta. We hit that man's cotton fields,
where that big square is. You know that cotton ain't never
been opened. It done opened up and thick in there. We pack
that truck full. There's a bale on the truck. Then we pack
them sacks full. I tie them on that truck and up the top,
and we head back to Grenada. I had six houses up there, empty.
I go in there. And, see, I had keys to them. And Mr. Davis[?]
told me to put all I wanted in them houses. Empty sacks of
cotton in them houses. And when it's about a week before Christmas,
I go to Mr. Darden[?]. Hey, that's the big man, you know.
Buys all the cotton.
He said, "T.B., I want to buy
all of your cotton. I'll give you $200 a bale for it."
I say, "Yes, sir." See, and
I get eighty or ninety dollars a ton for the seed. You understand.
Sometimes I had fifteen or twenty bales. Look what I've done
done.
Long: Yeah.
Now, you're talking about this scrapping. What is that?
Bankston: Wait.
You know when you go in your field to pick the cotton, you
know it's got low places in there, that cotton never opened
till the frost hit it. Well, all that cotton there, the folks
ain't going back to pick them snags[?]. I'm going and pick
everything in there, me and my children. I bought them new
boots, raincoats, underwear, and everything. Then, when I
leave home, my wood pile is full of pine and wood. I cut me
a heap of wood with my chain saw. We put it in the truck.
When we get out there, we go build a fire in two or three
places. When we get cold, we go to that fire and warm because
the fire already burning. We don't lose no time. You understand?
Right back picking that cotton. And we didn't move the truck
until we get ready to go back home. Because we done put that
cotton on that truck. Carried it there and emptied it. Well,
there's a week or two before Christmas. I go to Mr. Darden.
"Mr. Darden?"
"Yeah."
I say, "Is you ready for me?"
"Yeah, T. Anytime you want."
I say, "I'll be here in the
morning."
He say, "I'll have it open."
Like, my truck sitting out there, I go over there and borrow
a trailer from my boss man. Six-bale trailer or eight-bale
trailer. I'd hook it behind my truck or get two and hook behind
it. And me and them boys would load it at night.
(End of tape one, side one.
The interview continues on tape one, side two.)
Bankston: And
that morning I'd take off to the gin with them two trailers,
and my truck loaded and the trailers, yelling. He stopped
that.
Long: Now,
what would you call it? Scrap--?
Bankston: Scrapping.
That's scrap cotton. Scrap cotton. See, you know them cotton-pickers
go in there and just mess up that cotton, and them bolls don't
be open until the frost. Well, all that's open. And I go there
and pick all that and sometimes from here to there over yonder,
I done picked a bale of cotton.
Long: How much
you paying for it?
Bankston: I
ain't paying them nothing. They gave it to me. Just like you
got a farm, you know. And your hands done quit. The cows out
there, and mules. You tell me, "Go out there and get it, T."
Well, T. goes and gets it. And I planted all them peas and
me and my children get out there and fill them houses up and
I go around to--. You know the white folks keep pea thrashers.
I found one. Got a good pea thrasher.
I go to him. "Mister, can I
get you to thrash my peas?"
"You got many of them?"
"Oh, yes. I got two or three
houses full."
"OK. I'll be there such and
such a date, T.B."
I say, "Yes, sir." Well, I
go buy me two or three hundred croker sacks, you know. Or
else any kind of sacks I want. And have them there. And when
that man sees that pea thrasher there, he goes and talks with
that white man, I'm in trouble. (Laughter.)
"T.B.?"
"Yes, sir."
"I'll bring my sacks tomorrow."
Long: He wants
to share it.
Bankston: He's
got the half of it. If he don't, he'd take every bit of it.
I say, "Yes, sir."
Long:
But at first, what he tell you? He just wants half?
Bankston: Half
of the cotton. That's all. But he changed that thing. I told
you. Mister, look, I had to learn it the hard way. Papa told
me how to do, you know. And I done it, and they [took] it
from me. They took it from me. Ooooh, Mister.
Long: But you
still, look like, you still did good. Your family, they were
healthy. And did they eat good?
Bankston: Who!
Did they? I'll tell you what. A gallon of molasses would last
us two meals, [or] three meals. (Laughter.) See, I killed
plenty of hogs, and hang them up. Get that, what you call
that? What kind of salt you call that? That's Morton salt.
You know, you salt them down in Morton salt and take that
meat up and wash it. It all tastes just like bacon. You can
smell it all over this town cooking. You know how bacon smells.
Well, they cured it with Morton salt. They don't know what
that is down here. They don't know what Morton salt is. Man!
Lord have mercy!
Long: You'd
wait till it got cold?
Bankston: And
kill my hogs. And I got a big box. Built it. That tall. Long
from here over yonder. (Gesturing.)
Long: What
did you hang them up on?
Bankston: You
know how you put wire up there and have a two by four running
across and put wire up there, hang down and drive a nail in
it? Then hang a ham [or] middling on it. You understand? When
you take it out of the box, wash it off. You understand? Meat.
Long: Yeah.
Salted meat.
Bankston: Right.
Then, you get a bucket or old tub or something and put sand
in there and keep you a smoke in there. That's to keep the
flies and things out of it. You understand. Man, there ain't
nothing to it. Oh, Lord!
Long: And y'all
lived pretty good.
Bankston: Every
one of my children, fat as a pig. (Laughter.)
Long: Now,
tell me one thing, though.
Bankston: Mm-hm.
Long: What
about them hard times?
Bankston: Oh!
Well, I'll say it like this: the hardest time I had, it was
about three or four years. Oh, Lord! We had them horrible
white folks. That was when--. Who was that, the president?
Was it Hoover or Truman? Was so hard on us. When that WPA
come in.
Long: That
was Hoover.
Bankston: Look.
Papa said, "Children. Y'all can't go to school. You got to
stay and help Daddy. Daddy can't make it." Well, he was working
for the railroad, and a crosstie fell on him and busted his
foot. They brought him home in a section car and laid him
on the porch. And I had to take over there. I kept Papa two
years.
Long: What
was his name?
Bankston: Harry
Bankston. He look like that picture up yonder? Yeah. Now,
he lived to get a hundred and something. That foot was this
big. (Gesturing.) I went out there to the clay dirt. I got
me some clay dirt in a tin tub. Put vinegar, all my medicine
in there and made it up a poultice. And I put it around Papa's
foot. First put a rag and then poured all up in here. I wouldn't
put it tight. Papa's foot was done turned dead black. It went
to turning back to lose the color. I'd get up every morning
and take it off. Wash it and bathe it and put it back on.
And he would smile, and say, "Son, you good to Daddy." We
could hear him hollering and groaning all night long. He be
laying on the floor, you know, on a pallet.
Long: What
if it had turned blue?
Bankston: What
if it turned blue? I'm going to work with him. Who? I know
what to work with him. Get some jimsonweed. You understand.
Get that poison out of it. And keep sulfur in it. Keep sulfur
in it. Man!
Long: But wait.
You can't blow the sulfur in it. How you going to do it?
Bankston: Let
him lick it. Let him lick it. Just lick a little bit. Just
lick it. And he go and do it. Don't take it when it's raining,
though. You'll swell up. Just try to keep from getting wet.
Long: How you
get all this knowledge?
Bankston: Well,
you know, they used to sell us from over yonder. They sold
Aunt Sally Alba[?] over here, and she didn't have no folks.
Long: Over
yonder?
Bankston: From
overseas. Africa. She was staying in a house across the street
from us. Across the road. And she would have them charley
horses. She was by herself. Didn't have no folks. The white
folks, she done got too old to work, and they put her out
on her own. And she stayed in an old house, across the street
from us. Aunt Sally Alba, she didn't have no folks. Didn't
know nothing about her. So Mama and Papa make me go over there
and stay over there at night with them. And when she had them
charley horses, and fall out the bed, I had to put her back
in the bed. So one morning before day, Aunt Sally, "Come here
to me." I jumped up. She said, "Grab my (inaudible)." (Whispering.)
"Pull the curtain back." Looked on the porch and this is the
way he was (gesturing), the white man, putting a black man
in the hole dug in her floor. Pulled the planks up. Dug a
hole in the porch and put him in there.
Said, "Boy, don't you tell
nobody about this here."
Said, "No'am."
Said, "They'd kill every one
of us." You hear me? Well, I wanted to tell Papa and Mama,
but I was scared. She told me, "Don't." You know. I didn't
know what Papa might say, you know, cause all of us to be
killed. I can go to that place now. That man's down there,
in a clay hill on that [side] of the road. Aunt Sally Alba.
She learned me that. Oh! She learned me, but I done forgot
so much of it.
Long: Did she
know anything about the healing medicine?
Bankston: She
knowed everything. She learned me. She learned me.
Long: And her
full name, what was it?
Bankston: Aunt
Sally Alba. Big, dark heavy-set woman. Looked healthy, fine,
but she was old, and she just wouldn't--. You had to be really
known for her to talk to you. She wouldn't talk to you.
Long: Did she
dip or smoke?
Bankston: I
don't remember her doing none of that. She didn't do none
of that. There was a sassafras tree, she used to keep that
limb in her mouth. She'd keep that limb in her mouth. She
always would keep that stick in her mouth.
Long: Chew
on it.
Bankston: Chew
on it. Her teeth were just as pretty and white. Aunt Sally
Alba. She learned me what I know. That was way back yonder,
brother.
Long: She ever
tell you any stories?
Bankston: Well,
not too much, because she was mostly scared, because that's
when them white folks were killing us, you know. And she didn't
want to get killed. You had to keep your mouth shut.
Long: What
were they killing you for?
Bankston: Well,
just most anything. If they'd tell you, "Run," and you didn't
run, they'd kill you. And if they--. Just like we'd be sitting
off. See them boys sitting off out there?
Long: Yeah,
I see them.
Bankston: That
truck would drive there, say, "Hey, boys. Come on, I got two
or three hours of work."
"Yes, sir. We want to make
some money." Well, they'd carry you off and keep you till
night or just first dusk. They'd come back with that truck
and slow down to about thirty miles an hour and go to raising
that bed up. You'd better jump out that truck. If you don't,
they'd carry you back. The next time they didn't have to tell
you to jump out. If they didn't kill you, they would beat
you so you won't never be no more good.
Long: How much
they pay you?
Bankston: They
pay you then, when they whipped you. You didn't do to suit
them. They won't give you nothing. But dump you out on that
highway, then they speed up and go. Oh, man. Just like I'd
be setting down at home some time, truck drives by. "T.B."
"Yes, sir."
"You want to make thirty dollars?"
"Yes, sir."
"Take this truck and go get
you two or three men and go over yonder to So-and-so." Carry
me to it. He said, "Now, you see this patch here?"
I said, "Yes, sir."
"This is mine. You load it
up and bring it to me, and then I'm going to give you your
money."
"Yes, sir." He's stealing that
man's watermelon! And getting me in there! See that would
get me killed! You see? But what happened, the man didn't
kill me. He come to my house and asked me. I said, "Yes, sir.
That man told me them was his and sent me over there and give
me thirty dollars."
He said, "I'll get that so-and-so."
And sure enough, frankly, he would kill him or something.
Or shoot him. Because I done told him the truth. Man! Lord!
Long: Now,
you trying to tell me that area up there near Grenada, that's
so beautiful, land so rich, that there's mistreatment up there?
Bankston: Mistreatment?
Long: When
you were coming up?
Bankston: Mistreatment?
Hmph! Mister! Look, we used to be going to Sunday school on
a Sunday morning. Mama would make us all go. And see them
white boys coming in them trucks, Mama hit the bushes. You
know how a partridge do when they see you coming?
Long: Right.
Bankston: Well,
that's the way we had to do behind Mama's little ribbons to
the creek. We carried Mama across. So, look, and them white
folks would be in behind us. And you know them slings, how
long them ropes is? And if he's got a rock up in there that
big, if he hits you up in here, you're going to die. You'd
better stay out of the way of him.
Long: Like
they call a slingshot.
Bankston: No,
a sling.
Long: A real
sling?
Bankston: A
real sling. Got a rope on it, and it's waxed with wax. They
swing it and turn this end a-loose. It'll bust that car wide
open. Boom! Oh, man, they had a way of getting us. Lord have
mercy. I hate to talk about it. And that man they call Old
Man Lon Thomas[?]. You could hear him for miles. "Oooooh!
You goddamn niggers! Move up over there." And we'd be in the
field plowing on this side, but we'd be mocking him. He'd
set up in a great big rocking chair. Great big hat. And them
Negroes. Woooooh. And he steady cussing, day and night. Old
Man Lon Thomas. You could hear him for miles. "Oooooh! You
goddamn niggers!" I nursed one or two, and they got away with
me.
"T.B. Come here and get them
niggers off me."
Long: What
were you nursing them for?
Bankston: They
were dying, and they wives had me to come, and they would
pay me a dollar a day, or so much a week, to stay there with
him. He'd be dying. Some of them, they'd take them a month
to die. You understand?
Long: How would
you ease their pain?
Bankston: Rub
them. Rub them with stuff. And they would be good to me, some
of them. But them there sure enough done killed so many folks,
they couldn't be good. "Get them niggers off of me!" And they
wives had to come in there and bathe them down. "Oh, them
niggers is at me."
Long: But they
knew that you knew how to nurse?
Bankston: Right.
Sure. Oh, they would be so good to me.
Long: What
if I burned my hand and I had fire in it? Or I had heat in
it? What could you--?
Bankston: Yeah.
I forget what that was I put on it. It's a heap of things
you can put on that for to burn that fire, to use. But I done
forgot it, now. It'll come back to me.
Long: You ever
seen anybody that could talk it out?
Bankston: Sure.
Long: What
would you do?
Bankston: That
was them old folks would do that, would talk it out. But we
put medicine on it and draw it out. It's a little simple thing.
I forget what it is. Girl got burnt back here, and I put it
on there, draw it right out. I forgot what it is. See, folks
don't know nothing about it; they'll laugh at you about this.
And they'll make you look silly. And so, I just quit. Yeah,
I know heat, man. I just don't fool with it, now. See, and
the doctors here, they want to rebuke you and make you tell
it. The law will get up, "T.B., you going to have to tell
it, now. You going to have to." I don't have to do nothing,
but die. Can they hear me out yonder?
Long: No.
Bankston: See,
that's wrong. That is wrong, Mister. What I know, it ain't
killed nobody. Leave me alone. Either I'm right or wrong?
Long: And you
helping people.
Bankston: What
you said?
Long: And when
you're nursing them, you help them. When you were nursing
people.
Bankston: I
was what?
Long: When
you were nursing them, you were helping them.
Bankston: Sure.
Sure. Sure. "Put that nigger in jail!" Like they put me in
jail over yonder because I cut my brother. Here's the way
it was: my brother [was] working at Gulf Hills. I'm working
in the woods and painting white folks' houses at night to
make money. I was going back to the Delta to get my wife and
children and bring them here. And I rented a house from Willie
Jackson in Ocean Springs, to get my folks here. Mr. Magee
sells furniture over there in Gulfport, a furniture store.
I bought all my furniture, refrigerator, and stove from him.
Put it in that house. And my brother said, "T.B." Said, "I
hadn't got a place to stay. Me and my wife, Rena[?]." They
didn't have no children.
I said, "Well, W., you can
stay over here with me till you get you a place."
"T., and I'll pay you."
I said, "OK." Went on two or
three weeks and he didn't give me nothing. So it was a Friday,
I went to him. I said, "W." I said, "Now, you ain't give me
nothing. Friday will you give me something?"
He said, "Yeah, T., I'll give
you something." Well, that Friday I got paid, and I went down
to Mama Tera's[?] to pay her for whiskey I had got from her,
a pint or two, you know. And get me another half-pint of V.O..
And I got me two that Friday evening, and I was going on back
by Froggy Bottom. I see W.
"Hey, W."
"Yeah."
I say, "You going to give me
some money?"
When he got up to me, "Yeah."
Boom!
I said, "Wait a minute, W.
I'm your brother. Don't do me like that, W. I'm worried about
my children." All my hair was black, then.
And he said, "Yeah. Goddamn
it. I ain't put nothing on you. I'm fixing to put something
on you."
I said, "No, you just met your
Daddy and met him drunk." And I reached and got it. You know.
I'm glad he run. He run to the jailhouse about a half mile,
mile. And I was steady reaching down and cutting at him. And
when I knowed anything, he'd run in the police door, and I
run in there. (Laughter.) They grabbed me right there.
Long: What
did you have in your hand?
Bankston: That
knife. It had done split his coat all over him. He knowed
to stay out of the way of me. And so, they put me in the county
farm without a trial. Over there in prison. Jackson County.
Long: How bad
did you get him?
Bankston: Oh,
I didn't cut him nowhere. I just bruised him with my fist
where I hit him. I just cut his coat. That's all. And they
took all my furniture and sold it, and done around, and put
me over there for six or seven weeks.
Long: What
camp did you go to? Do you know?
Bankston: Jackson
County in Pascagoula. Over there. You know, they had it right
beside the road. I worked all on Delmight[?] Plantation. See,
I'm a fence man. Mr. Delmight had me putting up all them fences
for him. And so, they made me mad about something, Captain
Ivory[?] did |