An Oral History

With

T.B. Bankston

Interviewer: Worth Long

Tougaloo College Archives

This interview was transcribed as part of the Civil Rights Documentation Project.

Funding for this project was provided in part by the Mississippi

Humanities Council, the National Endowment for the Humanities, and

the Mississippi Department of Archives and History.

1999

Biography

Mr. T.B. Bankston was born in October in the early 1900s, on a Mississippi plantation. As a child, Mr. Bankston helped his father farm in the Duck Hill community. As a young man, he worked mule teams with a breaking plow to clean new pastures. From various "root" healers, he learned to make herbal remedies out of plants, animals, and minerals. As an adult, he married and raised a family by sharecropping, scrapping cotton, and hunting. During the civil rights movement, he found the courage to stand up to the Ku Klux Klan.

Table of Contents

Early childhood 2

World War I veterans 3

Plowing with mules 6

Cooking in a chimney 8

Herbal remedies 9

Farming in Grenada 14

Scrapping cotton 17

Arrested 26

Ku Klux Klan 30

Automobile accident 35

Near drowning 37

AN ORAL HISTORY

WITH

T.B. BANKSTON

This is an interview for the Civil Rights Documentation Project. The interview is with Mr. T.B. Bankston and is taking place on October 16, 1999. The interviewer is Worth Long.

Long: OK. Can you tell me your name and where and when you were born?

Bankston: Now, that's something I can't tell you because I don't know exactly. All I know, it's in October. It was in October. See, when we were coming up, the people wouldn't tell you. Your parents wouldn't tell you because they said it would make you mannish. You know, make you leave home. All that. They wouldn't tell us. Papa didn't tell me until I got twenty-two, and that was in thirty-nine. He told me that, then. We was down at Tie Plant, a place called Tie Plant on Ben McElrat's[?] plantation. Fellow called Ben McElrat.

Long: OK. Now, do any of your brothers and sisters know how old they are?

Bankston: Not exactly.

Long: What's the closest that you can think of? Who know?

Bankston: Would know?

Long: Yeah.

Bankston: Well, I'm the oldest.

Long: Tell me how old do you figure you are?

Bankston: Mister, look, when I told you I was forty-three when I come in, I was older than that, and I know it, but the day I don't know, because Papa told me--.

Long: So, you were forty-three when you came to--

Bankston: I was forty-three, and I came here in fifty-five.

Long: Came to what place?

Bankston: Biloxi, here. Over in Gulfport, and then come on over here.

Long: I see.

Bankston: See, Papa wouldn't tell us. Him and Mama separated in thirty-nine. In thirty-nine. And I was around twenty-two or twenty-three years old then. You understand?

Long: Right.

Bankston: Well, he let me start to smoking when I got twenty, and I had been smoking for years, two or three years before then, because I was smoking up there on the Dan Jordan Plantation.

Long: Now, where was Dan Jordan Plantation?

Bankston: That's out north of Duck Hill. Place called Duck Hill. That's out north of Duck Hill. Out towards that Indian reservation. You know where that Indian reservation [is] up there?

Long: Up near Duck Hill, Mississippi?

Bankston: That's the other side of Duck Hill. Way in yonder. About sixty or seventy miles back yonder way.

Long: What were y'all doing up there in the first place?

Bankston: Farming.

Long: Tell me about it.

Bankston: Well, Papa moved up there to try to, you know, to raise us up and get us a fair living. You know, where he could get something.

Long: But he moved from where?

Bankston: From down there at Duck Hill. Out north of Duck Hill. That's way up in there, around Swetman[?] and Lodi[?]. You heard talk of Lodi?

Long: Yeah, mm-hm.

Bankston: Well, it was up in there around Tupelo. We moved up in there on a plantation up there they called Mr. Henry Riley's[?] plantation. Called it Steeden[?] Place. They called it the Steeden Place. That's where all them bad Abrams[?] was, killed colored folks, you know. I forget that little, old creek. Anyway, it's up there. You remember when Uncle Sam bought that, took all that land up there when they put Camp McCain[?] up there? And they found that white lady, Ms. Lily Day[?] had all that big, old pretty house. They didn't tear it down. You know they didn't tear down Mr. John Bauden's[?] place when Uncle Sam bought that, up there.

Long: You mean that was World War II?

Bankston: Right. It was before then.

Long: Wait, now. It was before World War II?

Bankston: Sure was. Them other soldiers, that war, they were coming in with them leggings wrapped around them up in here and them old hard hats.

Long: That was World War I.

Bankston: Well, let me tell you. You might would know. We were big, old boys. Sometimes, it would be a month or so, folks be coming through, two or three men, sometimes one man, with all that big pack on his back. They done been over there fighting war, and they were coming back home, walking. You know, they'd sleep all beside the roads and everywhere. They had them leggings up to here; wrapped from here up. You know how them leggings was on them.

Long: Yes, sir.

Bankston: And them big, old Army coats way down here. Well, that was then.

Long: What kind of looking men were they, coming back?

Bankston: White and black. White and black, coming back out of the war. See, they just put them so far and turned them loose. They had to walk home.

Long: Is that right?

Bankston: Right. That was way back yonder. Well, this other war, they--.

Long: How big were you, then?

Bankston: When that come up?

Long: When you saw them?

Bankston: Oh, I was like this. (Gesturing.) I was like that. If I could get to Mr. Dan Jordan's cemetery and find that tombstone, I could tell you about how old them is. That was way back. I tell you what. You remember when Lindbergh flew over Mississippi, the first plane.

Long: When he flew overseas?

Bankston: He come over here.

Long: I didn't even remember it.

Bankston: Well, he come over here. Lindbergh. Well, that's when my brother run from the plane, talking about, "There's a devil up there, flying." (Laughter.) And then, I'll tell you something else. You remember when that high water was in thirty-two? Wasn't it? Thirty-one or thirty-two. And that colored woman paddled that boat, that old skiff, across the Mississippi River, and had that pig and two babies and a dog in there? You know, she made it safe to this side. What was the year? Was that in thirty-one or thirty-two? That high water.

Long: It was in the thirties.

Bankston: Right.

Long: High water.

Bankston: High water drowned all them folks' cows and hogs and things. And that woman paddled across the Mississippi River with her children and the dog and the pig.

Long: But, let's see this, and then you can tell me something else, but, the people came from the war before the high water came?

Bankston: Right. They would sometimes be two or three men, walking. You know, just going. They done give out. They just was going. And whenever they'd get tired, they would lay down there and sleep there, because, you see, they would stay warm with the clothes they had on. And they had them leggings. You know them leggings, what I'm talking about. You wrap them on up to here. They had them on. Them old Army coats, with them old, big shiny buttons. And them old hard hats.

Long: Right. They were roundish-looking hats.

Bankston: Round. Right. Hard. I had one one time. Somebody took it. I had one I dug up out of the woods. Somebody done took it.

Long: Yeah. So, let's go back and be sure that we understand that your name as far as you know is what?

Bankston: Well, what my really name was T.B. Bankston.

Long: T.B. Bankston?

Bankston: T.B. Bankston. B-A-N-K-S-T-O-N. Bankston.

Long: I see. Bankston.

Bankston: But now, when they set up in the war, drafted me out to service, Mr. Johnny Heath[?], I think it was, he was the head of the local board in Grenada, and he told Mr. David "White Dude" Whittaker[?], David DuBard[?] that he going to do away with my name. And he done it.

Long: Now, what was the reason he was doing that?

Bankston: Keep me from going overseas. Keep them from sending me overseas and have me taking aspirin that upset my heart. You understand?

Long: Right.

Bankston: And I go to where they welding at, and sit there all day. They have me to sit there all day, so, say that would upset my eyes, too. You know.

Long: So, what were they going to do with you if you didn't go?

Bankston: Well, they were going to send me on in the service.

Long: I mean, I know that the draft board was going to take you, but the people you were working for who had you--.

Bankston: They were working me on the plantation. And in them deadwoods, cleaning them new grounds. Cleaning, building pastures for miles. Because Uncle Sam would let them have them cows to raising them on halves, you know.

Long: Who did the plowing?

Bankston: The plowing? Me, and all the rest of them.

Long: What kind of? Did you have a one-horse team or--?

Bankston: Well, I had, sometimes I had two mules. Sometimes four mules. To a breaking plow.

Long: I'll bet you don't remember what the names of the mules were?

Bankston: Well, I tell you one of them. See this scar? See right here?

Long: Yeah.

Bankston: I used to wear a leather bracelet on there.

Long: Right down by your wrist?

Bankston: Right over here. Big leather band, I used to wear it on this. OK. This mule named Bill. We got him from overseas. His name was Bill. He done killed two or three men. He had three splits in his ear, and he hit at me to get me and busted that off my arm. So, I put him in the stable and tied him with a trace chain to the stable and whipped him. And he got mad, and he was going to kill me. See, he was going to kill me. His name's Old Bill. He a big yellow mule. And he weighed 1200 and something pounds. He was going to kill me. He come from overseas. You know, back then, we was eating the mule meat. You know, the big middling, like that. You don't remember that big middling. Mules. That was mule and horse meat. We eat it when that war was going on.

Long: I see. And why did they bring him to Grenada?

Bankston: Well, he was a good mule. He was a good mule, but he was bad. His name was Old Bill, big yellow mule.

Long: As a work mule?

Bankston: Work mule. Weighed 1200 pounds. Old Bill. You could put him to a log this tall and turn him loose. In other words, just carry him to where you land the logs and carry him back to the log, and you'd stay there. He'd come. He'd carry that log to somebody at the landing, from here to my house, unhook him, [and] he would come back to you. And you hook him to another one, and he'd do the same thing. You didn't have to follow him. He'd go back to the log.

Long: He was already trained?

Bankston: Already trained. He was a mule. Aw, he was a mule.

Long: What would make a good mule?

Bankston: Well, really, to make a good mule, Mister, look, you've got to feed him, and curry him, and keep him clean. Bathe him, and all that. You know we used to have to ride them out in them lakes when we'd come out of the field in Lake Henry and bathe the mule and shear him off. Then we'd turn them loose with the horses and feed them. You see. But every evening, we had to bathe them mules. See, but us colored folks, we just curry them good, you know, and take old greasy dishwater and bathe them. You know. Rub them and keep their hair pretty and black. And feed them all kind of--. You know, like we take medicine, we'd feed the horses and mules that, and it makes a real good mule. It really do. And mules get down sick, you can take turpentine. You'd be surprised what you can do with turpentine with them. His navel. You take a teaspoon, put it half full of turpentine, put it under that mule's navel, you can see it going up. Put it that far from it, and you'll see it going in his navel.

Long: Isn't that something?

Bankston: Just, boom, dry. And if he's sluggish, you'll see him go to moving. You'll see him go to moving. And get that Brown Mule Chewing Tobacco and chip it up in his food, you know. Brown Mule.

Long: Now, what will that do for him?

Bankston: Well, that cleans him out. It'll make him stronger. He'll eat more. See that tobacco gets the worms and things out of him. You understand? And you better not have that old homemade tobacco. You chip it up in his food, you know. In his corn and stuff. You understand? Like them charcoal you burn out of oak wood. You put that in his food, too. See, he eats that. See, that--.

Long: And what would that do for him?

Bankston: Make him, give him more pep. Oh, sure, man. Give him pep. Hogs the same way. Hogs, cows. You know a cow got a wool in them, don't you?

Long: Yeah.

Bankston: Well, you know what to do to get them wools out their back, don't you?

Long: No.

Bankston: Turpentine.

Long: Is that right?

Bankston: Turpentine, coal oil. Just drop a little on him. He'll come out himself. Some of them be that big. Buried in their back and in their shoulder. Just like a rabbit. Just like a rabbit.

Long: So, you use turpentine and kerosene or coal oil?

Bankston: Right.

Long: And what it'll do? It'll make the--?

Bankston: Make that wool come out of them. Out of the cows, too.

Long: The wool.

Bankston: Wool. They call them wool. They'll be in their backbone. Some of them be that big. You see them cows with them knots on them and their hair standing up?

Long: Mm-hm.

Bankston: That's a wool in there. Well, you've got a rag under him with that and touch him. Rub him. He coming out of there. He coming out. See, if you don't, somebody kill that cow and see, when they skin him, they see that wool fall out, they won't eat him. You see? You get that all out of him. Man, it's a lot.

Long: In the old times, people used to do a whole lot of things.

Bankston: Ooooo. That's the way I learned it. You ever eat a rabbit cooked in the chimney?

Long: No.

Bankston: You ain't never eat nary one? Look, you dress that rabbit; you musk that rabbit.

Long: Musk it?

Bankston: Musk it. Get that musk out of it. You get all kinds of seasoning, and mix it up. And get that aluminum foil and wrap him. First wrap him in that wrapping paper. Then, wrap that aluminum foil around him. Put all that seasoning on him. Thick. Wrap him good. Then, get you some brown paper and roll him up in there. Go up on top of the house. Lay you a piece of iron across the chimney and put a piece of wire on it. Let it hang down about that far. Let him stay in there two or three days. Go in there and get him out.

Long: Now's that's hanging down about--?

Bankston: Three or four foot. You understand? Tie him in the middle of that rod laying up there on top of the chimney.

Long: Hang him in the chimney?

Bankston: Hang him in the chimney. Let him stay. You know in the winter when it's real cold, you keep a fire all day and night, don't you?

Long: Yeah.

Bankston: Well, you let him. Don't--. Hang him up there. Let him stay two or three days. Go there and take him down and put him on your table. Take your time and open that up. And you talking about eating! You're going to eat bones and all. All that seasoning, clean through. You'll chew the bones up. See, a lot of peoples don't know that. Now, if you want to do it right, so you won't ever have to take no medicine, you get you a hickory tree. You get you a hickory tree, and cook him with that. Then, make your bread up and put them ashes back, and put that meat in there. Put your bread over in there and cover it up with them ashes. And let it cook, and eat that. You don't have to take no medicine.

Long: What medicine would you have to take, generally? What medicine would it replace?

Bankston: Any kind of working medicine. That there will work you out.

Long: It'll work you out?

Bankston: Yeah, I say it'll work your cold out of you. Hickory ashes. And this here red oak is good. But, see, these folks don't know nothing about this.

Long: What did your mama give you, say, if you seemed like you were going to have the flu or something?

Bankston: Jimsonweed. Jimsonweed. Or else hog goo.

Long: Hog goo?

Bankston: Hog goo. And you know what a hog pistol is under here? Where his pee come out? When you dress him, you cut all that out, you know? Well, papa take that and cut it up and split it open and wash it out, and he put it in a skillet and fries it till all the grease come out, and he strain it. Then he get him a little tallow and put in there and put it in a jar, and when we get a bad cold, he give us a pill of it.

Long: And then what happens?

Bankston: Pneumonia. (Laughter.) You've got pneumonia? Ain't nothing. Ain't nothing. Ain't nothing to it.

Long: What happened to that old time medicine?

Bankston: Them folks just quit making it and the law went to--. You know, they were going to put me in jail until I told them that I'm doing it to try to save the folks. I'm not doing it to try to make no money. And the law told them, said, "Leave him alone."

Long: Now, what you were doing, you were doing old time medicine?

Bankston: Yeah. Just like you got tonsilitis. Say "T., my tonsils. I'm going to have to go to the doctor."

I say, "No, you ain't."

You say, "T.," say, "Will you cure them?"

I said, "Yes." When I cure you and you hear tell of the law got me, going to lock me up, you're going to go up and tell them, "Don't." Ain't you?

Long: Right.

Bankston: Well, that's the way it was. They were going to lock me up. They said they were going to send me to the pen. But I was helping them free.

Long: Now, did they call you an old time doctor?

Bankston: They wanted to.

Long: Did they think you were a root man?

Bankston: I was.

Long: You was a root? What? What was you?

Bankston: Look. Just like you got tonsil trouble? You tell me. Tell me, and I'll cure you. One dose. If I don't, I'll eat you. Just like, you got diarrhea? And, I went to my uncle. I didn't know he was sick. I stayed about ten miles from him. I asked Aunt Freddy[?], "Where is Uncle Sam?"

She said, "He in there." Said, "T., you know Sam is dying?"

I said, "What's the matter with him?"

She said, "He got the diarrhea, and the doctor can't cure him."

I went in there. I said, "Uncle Sam?"

He said, "Uhn." Foam all down him, just white. His eyes couldn't hardly open.

I said, "Uncle Sam, you want me to cure you?"

He said, "Uhn-huhn."

I said, "Aunt Freddy, where your hoe?"

She said, "Go around in the chimney corner, T. Or else, look in the garden and get it." I got it, went down the path, and I go to a blackberry briar root. You know what a blackberry is. Not no dewberry, now. A blackberry. I dig it up. Go to the well, and draw me a bucket of water and wash that root off and let you chew it. And you swallow one swallow. Don't swallow two. It'll lock your bowels. And in a few minutes, you'll hear your stomach go to saying, "Rrrrrrrr." I laugh at you. But you will get scared. Think you're dying. Look, the next morning, you'll be up.

Long: Isn't that something?

Bankston: This fellow we had--. You heard them talking about Big Bill, here? Bad Big Bill used to be on the police force.

Long: Yeah. I heard of him.

Bankston: Well, his wife's sister is in Natchez, now. And her brother was at my house at night, and his mother called from up there down here, and asked was Charlie there. And she told them, "Yeah."

Said, "Could I speak to him?"

Say, "Yeah." Well, she told him, said, "Charlie, your mother on the phone." About eleven or twelve o'clock. Said, "She got to be in the hospital in the morning. To live." Say, "She ain't eat in three days. Won't eat nothing." Said, "And she gone to smelling." Her name is Tempe[?].

So, he said, "T., I heard you say you could cure the tonsil trouble."

I say, "I can."

He say, "You can't."

I say, "Yes, I can."

He say, "Will you get up and tell Mama what to do?"

I got up. I told her. I said, "Ma'am?"

She said, "Yeah."

I said, "Well, you get your knife point. Get some sulfur and pick up what you can pick up on the end of a knife point. Get a piece of brown paper." Now, you know brown paper sack? "And tear it like this. And put it right in the middle of it, and roll it up like you're rolling a cigarette. You open your mouth and blow it down your daughter's throat. It's tastes like flour." You know how flour tastes?

Long: Yeah.

Bankston: Well, that's the way it is. If you've got to take two doses, your tonsils is gone. You don't take no more. No more tonsil trouble. I raised all of my children, sisters, and brothers. Never been to the doctor.

Long: That's sulfur?

Bankston: Sulfur. You know sulfur. Old yellow sulfur.

Long: Yeah, I know. That stuff you put around the house?

Bankston: Right.

Long: Yeah. Now, what that do when you put it around the house?

Bankston: Keeps the snails and snakes and things away. But you take that. That's the best medicine in the world. They tried to outlaw it to keep us from going, so we can go to the doctor. They tried to outlaw it and say it's poison. But I was raised up on it. I got some at the house now.

Long: So, you wrap it up in a--? What kind of paper?

Bankston: Look. You know a paper sack. Now, a brown paper sack. You tear you a piece about that long and about that wide. (Gesturing.)

Long: So, that's about as long as your hand, then?

Bankston: No, about that long. Like a cigarette. Just like. Look a-here now. You look at me. You watch what I'm doing now.

Long: I see. You took out your knife.

Bankston: Mm-hm. You see where I can take this knife and pick up on the end of it. I put it right in the middle of it. And, look, I take that paper. I roll that paper just like a cigarette. You open your mouth and you stick it down in there and blow it in there on your tonsils. It tastes like flour. You know how flour tastes. No taste, is there?

Long: Uhn-huhn.

Bankston: Well, that's what it is. You never feel nothing.

Long: So, you blow it one side and then blow it on the other.

Bankston: No, just stick down there and blow it one time. Blow it out. That's it.

Long: One. That's it.

Bankston: That's it. And like you've got diarrhea. You know, there's a lot of folks die with the diarrhea, and I sees them when I go to the hospital, and I go to telling them, I say, "Y'all, I can cure you."

"I'm scared of that. I'm scared of it."

Look, you know ice? Ice. Ain't poison, is it?

Long: No.

Bankston: We live off of ice, though. I told a woman lived next door to me what to do to save her mother. You know what she told me? "I ain't going to kill my mother." Nothing but put some ice in a bag, and put it to your leg. And put a band around it, and freeze it out.

Long: What part of your leg?

Bankston: The part where it hurts. Got ice in a bag. Put it behind there and hold it till you can't. When you can't, you take it off. When you feel like it, put it on. Freeze that cold. Then you take stuff to run it on out of you. And she told folks, "T.B. is wanting me to kill my mother." I wouldn't do that, Mister. I won't do that. I know too much.

Long: What's the worst thing you done cured?

Bankston: The worst thing? Well, I cured my uncle. I cured mules, hogs, cows, everything. I say, everything. They get down and can't get up, and ain't going to get up, but when I get through--. That white man stopped me. He had the cows. He give them all to me, and the cows. He had other ones around back. He stopped me. He said, he was going to let them die. He'd let them die before he'd give them to me. I had a pasture full. See, you know, the calves used to be born. You know, they used to give colored folks the calves. He quit that.

Long: Why would they do that?

Bankston: You making too much money. You making too much money. Look at me. I moved on the place. The man told me, said, "T.B., I don't want nothing but half of your cotton."

I said, "Yes, sir." I planted thirty acres of corn.

Long: Now, where was that?

Bankston: That's up there at Grenada. I'm from Grenada. The place they called the Hard Time Plantation. The Hard Time Plantation. Out towards Coffeeville, a place called Coffeeville. And I planted thirty acres of corn. I planted about fifteen or twenty acres of sorghum. You don't get none of it. He done told me, "Plant two or three acres of peanuts." That's everything, you know. Well, I know he's going to take half of the cotton. Well, I made so much corn, and I went to the co-op. I didn't know what to do. I heard the folks talking about the [co-op]. I went there. I told them I had so many hundred bushels of corn, and could they get the co-op people to come get some load.

He said, "No, T. I called Arkansas, way in the North, some big feed places." Said, "And they sending them eighteen-wheelers in here."

I said, "Well, do that." And the boss man seen them two eighteen-wheelers in there, he come down there. (Laughter.)

And he said, "What these so-and-so's are doing?"

I said, "I had them come in here and pick up this corn."

"Well, they don't pick up no more, T.B. That's too much money for you."

I ain't going to tell what he said but, "That's too much money for you."

Long: You split the cotton with him, but you didn't--.

Bankston: Well, he told me I could have the corn and the peas, sorghum, all the other stuff. He wanted half of the cotton. That's all he wanted. He don't want nothing else. See, he ain't ever had nobody that would work like me. You know. I was making 100 bushels to an acre on corn. See.

Long: And how many acres did you have?

Bankston: About thirty acres of corn. See? And the next time, you know what he told me?

Long: What?

Bankston: "T.B., you don't plant but five acres of corn."

I said, "Yes, sir." Planted cotton and stuff for him, and I had to work it.

Long: What did you buy with the money you got?

Bankston: Money? Well, the money that he didn't get, I bought me a truck, buy me food, buy me cows, buy me some hogs to feed my family. You understand?

Long: How many did you have by then?

Bankston: How many in the family?

Long: Yeah, how many? Was this your own family by then?

Bankston: Yeah, this is my own family.

Long: Tell me who they were.

Bankston: Let me see, my boy, John Lee. Oh, wait, to start, my stepboy. Let me see, James Lee, Billy, Willy Louis.

Long: Willy Louis?

Bankston: Willy Louis. They found him dead in the North.

Long: Yeah. And who else?

Bankston: And Ollie B. And Banella.

Long: Banella? That was a girl?

Bankston: Right. That Charles' mother. We named her after her mother. See, her daddy raised her. He was a drunkard, and she was good to me, and I wanted her. And I married her. That's the only time I ever been married in my life. So, we had children.

Long: You had stepchildren and--?

Bankston: I had three stepboys, and I raised them. But they pay attention to what the white folks and the rich colored folks. See, when I go in the field in the morning, and come out at three o'clock, it's a bale of cotton, on whatever I empty it on. They tell me to empty it on, it's a bale of cotton. I'd get my rifle; I'd go over in the swamp and kill squirrels or coons and bring them home and skin them to feed my folks, and I kept them fed. You understand? So, they didn't like that. And so, there was a preacher called Reverend Monroe[?].

Long: Who was he? Reverend?

Bankston: Reverend Monroe. He was a preacher.

Long: Monroe?

Bankston: Monroe. Reverend Monroe.

Long: That kind of sounds like Montgomery or Reverend?

Bankston: All I know is Reverend Monroe.

Long: Monroe.

Bankston: That's right. His children up there now. They crazy about me and my chaps. Well, the white man went over there and went to gigging about [how] many it was. And he was a young man, like me, but he had them children. He told me that. He said, "T."

I said, "Sir?"

He come over in the field where I was picking cotton. I stopped. Sat down on my sack with him. He said, "Tomorrow morning," said, "you'd better get in the field." Said, "Son, I'm coming at you."

I said, "Reverend Monroe, you can't touch us."

He said, "Son," said, "I'm going to tear you up." He said, "I'm quitting now."

I said, "Y'all chose all of them." Wife and all. His wife was out there. Had a little wife, but all them children. They went home, and they had a shoat about that tall. They killed that hog, and they all eat a bellyful of meat. It ain't nothing to laugh about. Well, the next morning, the news hit us. He eat so much meat till he died that night. Reverend Monroe did. He was going to try to race with me. They couldn't do nothing with me.

Long: Now, you mean you could do one-hundred?

Bankston: A hundred what? A hundred pound of cotton?

Long: Yeah.

Bankston: A hundred. Seven and eight hundred [is] what I pick every day.

Long: Where you put it?

Bankston: In my sack. Look, Mister, when I leave the cotton house, I leave with three nine-foot sacks. Nine-foot sacks. You can put 110 [or] 120 pounds in one sack. When you turn around and put this on [there] and hold that sack.

Long: Pack it in.

Bankston: Pack it with your both foots. You got them other tied on the back. You don't have to quit and go up yonder to get your sack. You got your sack right here. Untie one off of here and untie one off the back. And just leave them there till you fill them all up. And my children. Ooooh! My wife didn't go to the field. I told the man. He got sore with me till he found out something. He didn't have to come in the field over me. He didn't. And he will tell anybody down there. He'd tell anybody, "You don't have to go in the field on T.B." You look at me. I'll tell you what I did. After he started taking the corn and stuff on halves, I used to go around on everybody's place, like you had a place.

And I would say, "Mister, y'all through picking cotton?"

"Yeah."

I'd say, "Can I have your scrapping?"

And you'd tell me, "Yeah."

I'd say, "Would you put it on this piece of paper for me, please?" And then you put it on your paper and put number 100 on there. This is what's on my truck. The white folks put that on my truck. Number 100. And they put it on there. Well, when everybody get through picking, I take my boys and my truck with my side plates on it. I put four sacks in there for myself. Put four in there for every one of the boys and the girls, on my truck. We're going over in the Delta. We hit that man's cotton fields, where that big square is. You know that cotton ain't never been opened. It done opened up and thick in there. We pack that truck full. There's a bale on the truck. Then we pack them sacks full. I tie them on that truck and up the top, and we head back to Grenada. I had six houses up there, empty. I go in there. And, see, I had keys to them. And Mr. Davis[?] told me to put all I wanted in them houses. Empty sacks of cotton in them houses. And when it's about a week before Christmas, I go to Mr. Darden[?]. Hey, that's the big man, you know. Buys all the cotton.

He said, "T.B., I want to buy all of your cotton. I'll give you $200 a bale for it."

I say, "Yes, sir." See, and I get eighty or ninety dollars a ton for the seed. You understand. Sometimes I had fifteen or twenty bales. Look what I've done done.

Long: Yeah. Now, you're talking about this scrapping. What is that?

Bankston: Wait. You know when you go in your field to pick the cotton, you know it's got low places in there, that cotton never opened till the frost hit it. Well, all that cotton there, the folks ain't going back to pick them snags[?]. I'm going and pick everything in there, me and my children. I bought them new boots, raincoats, underwear, and everything. Then, when I leave home, my wood pile is full of pine and wood. I cut me a heap of wood with my chain saw. We put it in the truck. When we get out there, we go build a fire in two or three places. When we get cold, we go to that fire and warm because the fire already burning. We don't lose no time. You understand? Right back picking that cotton. And we didn't move the truck until we get ready to go back home. Because we done put that cotton on that truck. Carried it there and emptied it. Well, there's a week or two before Christmas. I go to Mr. Darden. "Mr. Darden?"

"Yeah."

I say, "Is you ready for me?"

"Yeah, T. Anytime you want."

I say, "I'll be here in the morning."

He say, "I'll have it open." Like, my truck sitting out there, I go over there and borrow a trailer from my boss man. Six-bale trailer or eight-bale trailer. I'd hook it behind my truck or get two and hook behind it. And me and them boys would load it at night.

(End of tape one, side one. The interview continues on tape one, side two.)

Bankston: And that morning I'd take off to the gin with them two trailers, and my truck loaded and the trailers, yelling. He stopped that.

Long: Now, what would you call it? Scrap--?

Bankston: Scrapping. That's scrap cotton. Scrap cotton. See, you know them cotton-pickers go in there and just mess up that cotton, and them bolls don't be open until the frost. Well, all that's open. And I go there and pick all that and sometimes from here to there over yonder, I done picked a bale of cotton.

Long: How much you paying for it?

Bankston: I ain't paying them nothing. They gave it to me. Just like you got a farm, you know. And your hands done quit. The cows out there, and mules. You tell me, "Go out there and get it, T." Well, T. goes and gets it. And I planted all them peas and me and my children get out there and fill them houses up and I go around to--. You know the white folks keep pea thrashers. I found one. Got a good pea thrasher.

I go to him. "Mister, can I get you to thrash my peas?"

"You got many of them?"

"Oh, yes. I got two or three houses full."

"OK. I'll be there such and such a date, T.B."

I say, "Yes, sir." Well, I go buy me two or three hundred croker sacks, you know. Or else any kind of sacks I want. And have them there. And when that man sees that pea thrasher there, he goes and talks with that white man, I'm in trouble. (Laughter.)

"T.B.?"

"Yes, sir."

"I'll bring my sacks tomorrow."

Long: He wants to share it.

Bankston: He's got the half of it. If he don't, he'd take every bit of it. I say, "Yes, sir."

Long: But at first, what he tell you? He just wants half?

Bankston: Half of the cotton. That's all. But he changed that thing. I told you. Mister, look, I had to learn it the hard way. Papa told me how to do, you know. And I done it, and they [took] it from me. They took it from me. Ooooh, Mister.

Long: But you still, look like, you still did good. Your family, they were healthy. And did they eat good?

Bankston: Who! Did they? I'll tell you what. A gallon of molasses would last us two meals, [or] three meals. (Laughter.) See, I killed plenty of hogs, and hang them up. Get that, what you call that? What kind of salt you call that? That's Morton salt. You know, you salt them down in Morton salt and take that meat up and wash it. It all tastes just like bacon. You can smell it all over this town cooking. You know how bacon smells. Well, they cured it with Morton salt. They don't know what that is down here. They don't know what Morton salt is. Man! Lord have mercy!

Long: You'd wait till it got cold?

Bankston: And kill my hogs. And I got a big box. Built it. That tall. Long from here over yonder. (Gesturing.)

Long: What did you hang them up on?

Bankston: You know how you put wire up there and have a two by four running across and put wire up there, hang down and drive a nail in it? Then hang a ham [or] middling on it. You understand? When you take it out of the box, wash it off. You understand? Meat.

Long: Yeah. Salted meat.

Bankston: Right. Then, you get a bucket or old tub or something and put sand in there and keep you a smoke in there. That's to keep the flies and things out of it. You understand. Man, there ain't nothing to it. Oh, Lord!

Long: And y'all lived pretty good.

Bankston: Every one of my children, fat as a pig. (Laughter.)

Long: Now, tell me one thing, though.

Bankston: Mm-hm.

Long: What about them hard times?

Bankston: Oh! Well, I'll say it like this: the hardest time I had, it was about three or four years. Oh, Lord! We had them horrible white folks. That was when--. Who was that, the president? Was it Hoover or Truman? Was so hard on us. When that WPA come in.

Long: That was Hoover.

Bankston: Look. Papa said, "Children. Y'all can't go to school. You got to stay and help Daddy. Daddy can't make it." Well, he was working for the railroad, and a crosstie fell on him and busted his foot. They brought him home in a section car and laid him on the porch. And I had to take over there. I kept Papa two years.

Long: What was his name?

Bankston: Harry Bankston. He look like that picture up yonder? Yeah. Now, he lived to get a hundred and something. That foot was this big. (Gesturing.) I went out there to the clay dirt. I got me some clay dirt in a tin tub. Put vinegar, all my medicine in there and made it up a poultice. And I put it around Papa's foot. First put a rag and then poured all up in here. I wouldn't put it tight. Papa's foot was done turned dead black. It went to turning back to lose the color. I'd get up every morning and take it off. Wash it and bathe it and put it back on. And he would smile, and say, "Son, you good to Daddy." We could hear him hollering and groaning all night long. He be laying on the floor, you know, on a pallet.

Long: What if it had turned blue?

Bankston: What if it turned blue? I'm going to work with him. Who? I know what to work with him. Get some jimsonweed. You understand. Get that poison out of it. And keep sulfur in it. Keep sulfur in it. Man!

Long: But wait. You can't blow the sulfur in it. How you going to do it?

Bankston: Let him lick it. Let him lick it. Just lick a little bit. Just lick it. And he go and do it. Don't take it when it's raining, though. You'll swell up. Just try to keep from getting wet.

Long: How you get all this knowledge?

Bankston: Well, you know, they used to sell us from over yonder. They sold Aunt Sally Alba[?] over here, and she didn't have no folks.

Long: Over yonder?

Bankston: From overseas. Africa. She was staying in a house across the street from us. Across the road. And she would have them charley horses. She was by herself. Didn't have no folks. The white folks, she done got too old to work, and they put her out on her own. And she stayed in an old house, across the street from us. Aunt Sally Alba, she didn't have no folks. Didn't know nothing about her. So Mama and Papa make me go over there and stay over there at night with them. And when she had them charley horses, and fall out the bed, I had to put her back in the bed. So one morning before day, Aunt Sally, "Come here to me." I jumped up. She said, "Grab my (inaudible)." (Whispering.) "Pull the curtain back." Looked on the porch and this is the way he was (gesturing), the white man, putting a black man in the hole dug in her floor. Pulled the planks up. Dug a hole in the porch and put him in there.

Said, "Boy, don't you tell nobody about this here."

Said, "No'am."

Said, "They'd kill every one of us." You hear me? Well, I wanted to tell Papa and Mama, but I was scared. She told me, "Don't." You know. I didn't know what Papa might say, you know, cause all of us to be killed. I can go to that place now. That man's down there, in a clay hill on that [side] of the road. Aunt Sally Alba. She learned me that. Oh! She learned me, but I done forgot so much of it.

Long: Did she know anything about the healing medicine?

Bankston: She knowed everything. She learned me. She learned me.

Long: And her full name, what was it?

Bankston: Aunt Sally Alba. Big, dark heavy-set woman. Looked healthy, fine, but she was old, and she just wouldn't--. You had to be really known for her to talk to you. She wouldn't talk to you.

Long: Did she dip or smoke?

Bankston: I don't remember her doing none of that. She didn't do none of that. There was a sassafras tree, she used to keep that limb in her mouth. She'd keep that limb in her mouth. She always would keep that stick in her mouth.

Long: Chew on it.

Bankston: Chew on it. Her teeth were just as pretty and white. Aunt Sally Alba. She learned me what I know. That was way back yonder, brother.

Long: She ever tell you any stories?

Bankston: Well, not too much, because she was mostly scared, because that's when them white folks were killing us, you know. And she didn't want to get killed. You had to keep your mouth shut.

Long: What were they killing you for?

Bankston: Well, just most anything. If they'd tell you, "Run," and you didn't run, they'd kill you. And if they--. Just like we'd be sitting off. See them boys sitting off out there?

Long: Yeah, I see them.

Bankston: That truck would drive there, say, "Hey, boys. Come on, I got two or three hours of work."

"Yes, sir. We want to make some money." Well, they'd carry you off and keep you till night or just first dusk. They'd come back with that truck and slow down to about thirty miles an hour and go to raising that bed up. You'd better jump out that truck. If you don't, they'd carry you back. The next time they didn't have to tell you to jump out. If they didn't kill you, they would beat you so you won't never be no more good.

Long: How much they pay you?

Bankston: They pay you then, when they whipped you. You didn't do to suit them. They won't give you nothing. But dump you out on that highway, then they speed up and go. Oh, man. Just like I'd be setting down at home some time, truck drives by. "T.B."

"Yes, sir."

"You want to make thirty dollars?"

"Yes, sir."

"Take this truck and go get you two or three men and go over yonder to So-and-so." Carry me to it. He said, "Now, you see this patch here?"

I said, "Yes, sir."

"This is mine. You load it up and bring it to me, and then I'm going to give you your money."

"Yes, sir." He's stealing that man's watermelon! And getting me in there! See that would get me killed! You see? But what happened, the man didn't kill me. He come to my house and asked me. I said, "Yes, sir. That man told me them was his and sent me over there and give me thirty dollars."

He said, "I'll get that so-and-so." And sure enough, frankly, he would kill him or something. Or shoot him. Because I done told him the truth. Man! Lord!

Long: Now, you trying to tell me that area up there near Grenada, that's so beautiful, land so rich, that there's mistreatment up there?

Bankston: Mistreatment?

Long: When you were coming up?

Bankston: Mistreatment? Hmph! Mister! Look, we used to be going to Sunday school on a Sunday morning. Mama would make us all go. And see them white boys coming in them trucks, Mama hit the bushes. You know how a partridge do when they see you coming?

Long: Right.

Bankston: Well, that's the way we had to do behind Mama's little ribbons to the creek. We carried Mama across. So, look, and them white folks would be in behind us. And you know them slings, how long them ropes is? And if he's got a rock up in there that big, if he hits you up in here, you're going to die. You'd better stay out of the way of him.

Long: Like they call a slingshot.

Bankston: No, a sling.

Long: A real sling?

Bankston: A real sling. Got a rope on it, and it's waxed with wax. They swing it and turn this end a-loose. It'll bust that car wide open. Boom! Oh, man, they had a way of getting us. Lord have mercy. I hate to talk about it. And that man they call Old Man Lon Thomas[?]. You could hear him for miles. "Oooooh! You goddamn niggers! Move up over there." And we'd be in the field plowing on this side, but we'd be mocking him. He'd set up in a great big rocking chair. Great big hat. And them Negroes. Woooooh. And he steady cussing, day and night. Old Man Lon Thomas. You could hear him for miles. "Oooooh! You goddamn niggers!" I nursed one or two, and they got away with me.

"T.B. Come here and get them niggers off me."

Long: What were you nursing them for?

Bankston: They were dying, and they wives had me to come, and they would pay me a dollar a day, or so much a week, to stay there with him. He'd be dying. Some of them, they'd take them a month to die. You understand?

Long: How would you ease their pain?

Bankston: Rub them. Rub them with stuff. And they would be good to me, some of them. But them there sure enough done killed so many folks, they couldn't be good. "Get them niggers off of me!" And they wives had to come in there and bathe them down. "Oh, them niggers is at me."

Long: But they knew that you knew how to nurse?

Bankston: Right. Sure. Oh, they would be so good to me.

Long: What if I burned my hand and I had fire in it? Or I had heat in it? What could you--?

Bankston: Yeah. I forget what that was I put on it. It's a heap of things you can put on that for to burn that fire, to use. But I done forgot it, now. It'll come back to me.

Long: You ever seen anybody that could talk it out?

Bankston: Sure.

Long: What would you do?

Bankston: That was them old folks would do that, would talk it out. But we put medicine on it and draw it out. It's a little simple thing. I forget what it is. Girl got burnt back here, and I put it on there, draw it right out. I forgot what it is. See, folks don't know nothing about it; they'll laugh at you about this. And they'll make you look silly. And so, I just quit. Yeah, I know heat, man. I just don't fool with it, now. See, and the doctors here, they want to rebuke you and make you tell it. The law will get up, "T.B., you going to have to tell it, now. You going to have to." I don't have to do nothing, but die. Can they hear me out yonder?

Long: No.

Bankston: See, that's wrong. That is wrong, Mister. What I know, it ain't killed nobody. Leave me alone. Either I'm right or wrong?

Long: And you helping people.

Bankston: What you said?

Long: And when you're nursing them, you help them. When you were nursing people.

Bankston: I was what?

Long: When you were nursing them, you were helping them.

Bankston: Sure. Sure. Sure. "Put that nigger in jail!" Like they put me in jail over yonder because I cut my brother. Here's the way it was: my brother [was] working at Gulf Hills. I'm working in the woods and painting white folks' houses at night to make money. I was going back to the Delta to get my wife and children and bring them here. And I rented a house from Willie Jackson in Ocean Springs, to get my folks here. Mr. Magee sells furniture over there in Gulfport, a furniture store. I bought all my furniture, refrigerator, and stove from him. Put it in that house. And my brother said, "T.B." Said, "I hadn't got a place to stay. Me and my wife, Rena[?]." They didn't have no children.

I said, "Well, W., you can stay over here with me till you get you a place."

"T., and I'll pay you."

I said, "OK." Went on two or three weeks and he didn't give me nothing. So it was a Friday, I went to him. I said, "W." I said, "Now, you ain't give me nothing. Friday will you give me something?"

He said, "Yeah, T., I'll give you something." Well, that Friday I got paid, and I went down to Mama Tera's[?] to pay her for whiskey I had got from her, a pint or two, you know. And get me another half-pint of V.O.. And I got me two that Friday evening, and I was going on back by Froggy Bottom. I see W.

"Hey, W."

"Yeah."

I say, "You going to give me some money?"

When he got up to me, "Yeah." Boom!

I said, "Wait a minute, W. I'm your brother. Don't do me like that, W. I'm worried about my children." All my hair was black, then.

And he said, "Yeah. Goddamn it. I ain't put nothing on you. I'm fixing to put something on you."

I said, "No, you just met your Daddy and met him drunk." And I reached and got it. You know. I'm glad he run. He run to the jailhouse about a half mile, mile. And I was steady reaching down and cutting at him. And when I knowed anything, he'd run in the police door, and I run in there. (Laughter.) They grabbed me right there.

Long: What did you have in your hand?

Bankston: That knife. It had done split his coat all over him. He knowed to stay out of the way of me. And so, they put me in the county farm without a trial. Over there in prison. Jackson County.

Long: How bad did you get him?

Bankston: Oh, I didn't cut him nowhere. I just bruised him with my fist where I hit him. I just cut his coat. That's all. And they took all my furniture and sold it, and done around, and put me over there for six or seven weeks.

Long: What camp did you go to? Do you know?

Bankston: Jackson County in Pascagoula. Over there. You know, they had it right beside the road. I worked all on Delmight[?] Plantation. See, I'm a fence man. Mr. Delmight had me putting up all them fences for him. And so, they made me mad about something, Captain Ivory[?] did