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An
Oral History
With
Will
O. Washington
Interviewer:
Worth Long
Tougaloo
College Archives
This
interview was transcribed as part of the Civil Rights Documentation
Project.
Funding for this
project was provided in part by the Mississippi
Humanities Council,
the National Endowment for the Humanities, and
the Mississippi
Department of Archives and History.
2000
Biography
Mr. Will Oatis Washington was
born in Grenada, Mississippi. His father, Oatis Washington,
worked at a log mill, and his mother, Hattie Collins Washington,
did domestic work. He was the sixth of eight children. When
he was sixteen, he witnessed Dr. Martin Luther King and Stokely
Carmichael as they marched on South Street in Grenada, having
taken up James Meredith's March Against Fear after Mr. Meredith
was shot around Sardis, Mississippi. In the sixties, Mr. Washington
became active in SCLC, testing public accommodations in restaurants,
and being arrested three times for his movement activities,
including a stint at Parchman Penitentiary when he was a teenager.
Table of
Contents
Childhood 1
Inequities in education 3
Meredith march, 1966 4
Rally on the courthouse square
in Grenada 6
SCLC comes to Grenada 7
Testing public accommodations
8
Arrest 10
Desegregating the Little Widget
11
Sent to Parchman Penitentiary
as a minor 13
SCLC makes bail 18
Dr. Martin Luther King at Bellflower
A.M.E. Church 20
Law enforcement beating of Big
Moe Lester 21
Mule train 23
Jasper Neely 24
Rosie Washington 24
Henry Peacock 24
Voting as empowerment 26
Military service 30
AN ORAL HISTORY
with
WILL O. WASHINGTON
This is an interview for
the Civil Rights Documentation Project. The interview is with
Mr. Will O. Washington and is taking place on April 2, 2000.
The interviewer is Worth Long.
Long: OK. Would
you tell me your name and where and when you were born, please?
Washington:
My name is Will Oatis Washington. I was born at 373 Union
Street.
Long: Mm-hm.
And where is that?
Washington:
Here in Grenada, Mississippi.
Long: Uh-huh.
What was it like growing up in Grenada?
Washington:
For a black child it was rough. You know. If you knew anything
that was going on during the times, it was rough. Yes.
Long: Right.
OK. Who were your parents? And what had you gone through?
Their names and where they were born?
Washington:
My father was Oatis Washington, and my mother was Hattie[?]
Washington. Hattie Collins[?] Washington.
Long: Mm-hm.
And they were from?
Washington:
They were from an area out near the Grenada dam, called Red
Grass[?].
Long: OK. So,
what kind of work would they have been doing early on?
Washington:
My father was working at a paper mill. At a, well, a log camp.
A log mill. And my mother was working in houses, in white
people's houses.
Long: Uh-huh.
Domestic work.
Washington:
Domestic work.
Long: Mm-hm.
That's fine. And how many children did they have?
Washington:
Eight.
Long: Mm-hm.
Can you remember all their names?
Washington:
Yes. I have a brother. My oldest brother is T.W. Washington.
I had a sister, Martha Nell[?] Washington[?] who has passed,
a sister Beulah[?] Washington, a sister Willie Rae[?] Washington,
a sister Lucille, a sister Joan, a brother Robert Louis, and
myself, Will.
Long: What
number child are you?
Washington:
I was the sixth.
Long: OK. Knee
baby.
Washington:
Yeah. (Laughter.)
Long: Yeah.
Now, when you were born, where were your parents? What place?
Washington:
On Union Street.
Long: On Union
Street?
Washington:
Yeah. Seven, six, three Union Street.
Long: So, they
had moved here--.
Washington:
Yeah. They had been here a while.
Long: Uh-huh.
Can you tell me just what it was like growing up inside your
family, in this Grenada community at that time? Just talk
to me for a while about [it].
Washington:
Well, just in the Grenada community it was pretty nice, you
know, as long as we stayed in our community playing with each
other. You know. The children, family, and friends.
Long: Staying
in your place.
Washington:
Yeah. That's right.
Long: OK. So,
talk about that.
Washington:
It was a normal childhood, you know, in our community where
we just played different games and had a good time.
Long: Like
what? Tell me a little bit about what y'all played.
Washington:
Jump rope, hopscotch, shooting marbles. We had a mill down
here called the lumbar yard, we would say it is. And we used
to go down there and get sticks that they used to make hardwood
floors and get on it and ride them like the stick was our
horse. You know. So, we had a great time doing that. Rolling
tires.
Long: Right.
How far away was school?
Washington:
About a quarter of a mile. Right over the hill here from the
house.
Long: Uh-huh.
And did the bus come by your house to pick you up?
Washington:
No. No. We walked. Everybody walked. It's right across the
street over here. Yes. Mm-hm.
Long: If y'all
had been living, as a black family, across town, how would
you have gotten to school?
Washington:
You would have walked or your parents would have taken you.
Long: Uh-huh.
So, you walked, regardless.
Washington:
Yeah. We walked to school. Yes.
Long: There
were no buses?
Washington:
There were no buses in the area that I knew of. I'll say that.
Yes.
Long: Did you
ever, during that time, see a school bus for anybody?
Washington:
Not during the early years. No. Mm-mm.
Long: So, when
the white kids went to their school, what did they have?
Washington:
They had--. You know, they had buses.
Long: They
had buses.
Washington:
Yes. Right.
Long: So, what
does that tell you about that time?
Washington:
Well, about the unequal treatment. You know.
Long: Uh-huh.
OK.
Washington:
One of the things that stuck out in my mind was our school
books. You know. Our school books were already raggedy and
tattered, and we had to make sure that we took care of that,
so that at the end of the year we wouldn't have to pay for
it. If they were torn any worse. So, that stuck out in my
mind.
Long: And where
did the school books come from?
Washington:
From the white schools. After they had used them. You know.
And worn them out. Then we got them.
Long: Right.
OK. Did you ever look in the book and see somebody's name
you knew?
Washington:
Well, no, I didn't. I could say I never did, but I knew that
each year that you used them, you had to sign them, and I
saw a lot of names that I didn't know. But you know, I could
tell some of them were white. You know. The majority of them
were.
Long: Now,
finally, tell me about when freedom came. When you remember
people standing up for their rights in your community.
Washington:
I remember when they first came to town to help us stand up
for our rights, I was in Memphis. I had just gotten back to
town, and I saw, you know, a whole bunch of people standing
around. I was wondering what was going on.
Long: Mm-hm.
This was about what year?
Washington:
That was in sixty-six. And they informed me that people had
come to town and said they were going to help us get our freedom.
Long: Did they
tell you where they had come from? Where they started out?
Washington:
Different destinations. Some had come from Alabama, Tennessee,
all the way up to Chicago. Different places. Yeah.
Long: So, if
it was sixty-six, that must have been the Meredith march.
Washington:
That's right.
Long: So, that
was what? What did they call it?
Washington:
He was then attending Ole Miss or about to attend Ole Miss
College. (Inaudible.)
Long: What
did you hear about what he was trying to accomplish when he
left Memphis and was going on this March Against Fear? Can
you remember anything that they said about that march? Before
or after?
Washington:
Nothing just stands out in my mind about it, other than bringing
attention to, you know, the problems of the white school then.
The college.
Long: Uh-huh.
So, James Meredith had been one of the first people to go
to what school?
Washington:
Ole Miss. Yes.
Long: Alright.
Now, on this march, when he tried to march, your friend Mr.
Peacock was saying that they shot him when he crossed over
from--.
Washington:
Yeah. They shot him, I believe, somewhere up around Sardis,
Mississippi. Yes.
Long: And Dr.
King and CORE, Mr. McKissick[?], and Stokely Carmichael from
SNCC, they decided to take up the march. And they were heading
down this way.
Washington:
Yes. That's right.
Long: He saw
them when they crossed the river. What is that--?
Washington:
The Yalobusha River.
Long: The Yalobusha
River.
Washington:
On Highway 51.
Long: When
did you see them?
Washington:
I saw them probably when they made it down to South Street.
Long: Uh-huh.
And tell me. Just tell me about that time.
Washington:
As a young child, I was just excited. Apprehensive, in a way.
You know. Not knowing what was about to take place, but, you
know, really excited. That would be the main thing.
Long: You say,
young. You would be about?
Washington:
About sixteen.
Long: About
sixteen?
Washington:
Yeah.
Long: Mm-hm.
So, what did you do? (Laughter.)
Washington:
From the beginning, like a lot of people, I wanted to know
exactly what was going on, so I stood back, and watched, from
the side. Mm-hm.
Long: When
is the first time that you ever came in contact with, what
did y'all call them? Freedom fighters?
Washington:
Yeah. Freedom fighters. The first time I came in contact with
them, they had a rally up on the square here in Grenada. And
I went up to hear what they were talking about. That was my
first contact.
Long: You mean
to tell me they had a rally out in the--?
Washington:
Out in the open.
Long: --courthouse
square?
Washington:
In the courthouse square. Yes. In the town square. That's
what it was.
Long: Out there
on that grass?
Washington:
Out on the grass. (Laughter.) In front of the white statue
that they didn't like for us to be around.
Long: The Confederate
statue?
Washington:
Oh, yeah.
Long: Oh, Lord!
Washington:
Oh, yeah. (Laughter.)
Long: And who
did you see up there trying to--?
Washington:
People from Grenada or what?
Long: Yeah.
Did you see any leaders from SCLC that you later knew?
Washington:
Yeah, the main ones sticks out in my mind is Cottonreader
and Hosea.
Long: Cottonreader
and Hosea Williams.
Washington:
Yes.
Long: And,
so, tell me about what kinds of things they were doing. That's
hard to believe.
Washington:
That's hard to believe, and it was something to behold. You
know. The way they were talking about white people with white
people standing there. You know.
Long: Tell
me. What were they saying?
Washington:
(Laughter.) Just saying, you know, how we would have to break
down the strongholds of the white man. You know. We had been
slaves too long, and we would no longer, you know, tolerate
that.
Long: Yeah.
And what examples did they give of the enslavement of black
people in Grenada?
Washington:
The places that we couldn't go and where we spent our money.
And, you know, like, in one of our eating establishments here
called the Chicken Inn, we had to go there to the back door.
Had a little hole in the wall, where the black people went
in to be waited on. Then we had Bloodwurst[?], a little café,
as they called it. You had to go around to the back and get
your food, and you stood outdoors to wait on it. So, you know,
different places like that.
Long: Right.
And what happened in terms of trying to meet their demands?
What did they do? Did they organize the students?
Washington:
Yeah. They organized the town. They organized the town. They
started at a church called Bellflower, and that's where we
had a rally, you know, to get the people organized.
Long: Mm-hm.
Just continue to talk about it as if it were--.
Washington:
And we had--. You know, when they had the first meeting that
I attended, that's what they were talking about. Organize
the people and getting them where they could get in contact
with everybody when they wanted to have a march or a picket
or anything. To picket the stores and the establishments here
in Grenada.
Long: Right.
Uh-huh. Alright. Did they set up any teams to go and test
the different places?
Washington:
Oh, yes.
Long: Tell
me about it.
Washington:
That was one of the main things that they did. Sent, along
with some of their people that had been through different
situations, they sent people from Grenada out with them. And,
you know, to test different people and see what reactions
they would get from the white people. And it was rough.
Long: Tell
me about some of them.
Washington:
Alright. Some of the places I went to. I went to Chicken Inn.
The Chicken Inn I was telling you about. I went to the front,
and we sat down at the counter. And told the people that we
wanted a burger, a drink, or whatever you wanted. And it got
pretty hostile. You know. They wouldn't wait on us, and had
threats from some of the white men that were in there. And
of course, they called the police, and we were escorted out.
Long: They
just threw you out?
Washington:
Yes.
Long: Uh-huh.
Now, who was the team leader when you went to the Chicken
Inn? Do you remember who?
Washington:
I can't remember if it was Cottonreader or Hosea.
Long: About
how many people?
Washington:
How many? About fifteen. Yeah.
Long: Uh-huh.
Y'all sat down?
Washington:
Yeah.
Long: And what
did you do?
Washington:
Just ordered a drink. (Laughter.) Yeah.
Long: Did they
have a place for you around back, though?
Washington:
Oh, yeah. And that was the whole thing. We were tired of going
to the back. You know. So, we wanted to go to the front where
everybody else was going, per se.
Long: In Grenada,
Mississippi.
Washington:
In Grenada, Mississippi.
Long: Had you
lost your mind?
Washington:
I was told I had. (Laughter.) Especially when the police got
there. They asked us, you know, wasn't the door still around
there that you used to go in? And we told them we no longer
wanted to use that door. So, you know. Yeah, we had lost our
minds. (Laughter.) We had lost our mind. We were following
the outside agitators. That was what they called, you know,
SCLC. That's who I was associated with. Outside agitators.
Long: OK. Now,
what else did y'all do? Now, so, you tested them.
Washington:
Yes.
Long: And you
found out what?
Washington:
We found out that you would be arrested if you just did things
that normally you should be able to do every day.
Long: Right.
Washington:
Yes.
Long: And then,
did they have a meeting that night to talk about it?
Washington:
Yeah. Every time we went out. Every different date, we'd have
a meeting later that night to see what everybody went through.
You know. And what strategy they would have to get together
the next time when we went out.
Long: Tell
me about the strategy on Chicken Inn.
Washington:
Well, the strategy on Chicken Inn was just to continue to
go there. Just be persistent. You know. People got arrested,
but, you know, every time someone got arrested, they just
sent out another team.
Long: Uh-huh.
And if they were arrested, where would they take them?
Washington:
They would take them to the city jail. Then, it was a big,
old dilapidated building where they kept everybody. And that's
where we were taken.
Long: We?
Washington:
Different people doing marching.
Long: Were
you ever arrested?
Washington:
I was arrested three times.
Long: Tell
me about the three.
Washington:
Alright. First time I was arrested for just congregating up
on the square downtown.
Long: You were
on the white folks' grass, though.
Washington:
That's the thing. (Laughter.) That's the thing. On the white
folks' grass without permission! That was it. Without permission.
Long: OK. That's
one of them.
Washington:
Yes. And the second time, I was arrested down on Plum Street
for unlawful assembly.
Long: What
were you doing?
Washington:
Just standing there singing and talking. People as a group.
Long: What
[were] you singing. Tell me. What were y'all singing?
Washington:
Well, some of them crazy songs. "We Ain't Going to Let No
White Folks Turn Us Around."
Long: Oh, man!
(Laughter.)
Washington:
And "Oh, Freedom Over Me." Yes. Yes.
Long: About
how many people?
Washington:
Probably about three or four hundred. Yes.
Long: And that's
down at the end of Plum Street?
Washington:
That's down on the north end of Plum Street.
Long: Uh-huh.
And there are some buildings in that area.
Washington:
Yeah. That's right behind a building that they call the Little
Widget[?]. That was a hang-out for the white people. A big
hang-out for the younger kids. The younger white kids. And
that was (inaudible). Yes.
Long: But it
was close to the black community?
Washington:
Oh, it was in the black community. Yeah.
Long: What
did you call it? The Little?
Washington:
Little Widget.
Long: What
did they do when they went in there?
Washington:
In the Little Widget?
Long: Yeah.
Washington:
They went in and ordered drinks and, you know, ice cream.
It was for young kids. And played the juke box, as they called
it. And had a good time. Yeah. And that was another place
where we had to go to the back door and stand outdoors and
be waited on.
Long: The Widget.
Washington:
The Widget. The Little Widget. Yes.
Long: What
if you went around for the Little Widget?
Washington:
If you went around to the front, if the kids didn't jump on
you, of course, they called the police, and you were arrested.
Yes.
Long: And this
is nineteen?
Washington:
Sixty-six. Mm-hm.
Long: Did y'all
know that there was a public accommodations act? That the
United States had said that people had a right to go into
publicly supported areas or places that were engaged in interstate
commerce, and so forth?
Washington:
At that age, we really didn't think about it, because we were,
you know, conditioned over the years. Our people were conditioned
to stay in our area, you know, in our neighborhoods. And the
places that we went to, the older people were already going
to the back doors and stuff, so we didn't think about it.
It was just something that we did that we knew. You know.
That's all.
Long: Mm-hm.
And what convinced you, though, that you ought to be freedom
bound?
Washington:
When the movement came to town. That's when we were convinced.
You know, listening to Hosea, and Cottonreader, and Dr. King,
who, you know, later came to town. Listening to them tell
us what we should have been doing all the time. You know.
How we should have been living. And that convinced us that
we no longer wanted to be in the situation we were in. Yes.
Long: That's
OK. Now, your mother and your family. Come on, tell me what
they said.
Washington:
Right. Well, my mother had mixed emotions. You know. Because
she knew about the white people and how they were. You know.
And she didn't want her children hurt, so, she had mixed emotions,
but never once did she stop me from going. You know. She talked
about it, how she was afraid, but she didn't--.
Long: Yeah.
Now, did you understand that her job might be in jeopardy?
Washington:
When I first started, I didn't. I didn't understand that.
You know. She never would press that issue.
Long: The issue
of?
Washington:
Of how her job would be affected if I was out in the street
like that, because she knew that the people she worked for
would find out that I was out there, some kind of way. But
she never denied me, you know, the right to go. She never
did.
Long: Uh-huh.
And did they find out?
Washington:
Oh, yeah. They knew. Yeah. She didn't really talk about it.
You know. When she would come home from work, it was certain
things she would say that I could gather that she knew I had
been out that day. You know. But she never did really talk
about it.
Long: Mm-hm.
And there were some people who lost their jobs.
Washington:
A lot of people.
Long: Lot of
people?
Washington:
Yes.
Long: But the
family she worked for--.
Washington:
The family she worked for, evidently, didn't press the issue
because she stayed there years. Yes.
Long: That's
good.
Washington:
Mm-hm.
Long: Did you
know the children of the family that she worked for?
Washington:
I knew one. That's all. Yeah. We never did have any contact.
So, naw, I didn't know them.
Long: OK. Now,
we have talked about two of the places where you were arrested.
Washington:
Yes. Alright. And the third time I was arrested is the time
that we went to Parchman to the state penitentiary.
Long: I beg
your pardon?
Washington:
The third time was when I went to the state penitentiary.
Long: Tell
me about that whole thing. What set it up and how'd you get
there? What happened and how did you get back? Just go on
and tell me that as a whole story.
Washington:
Well, this was another march that we had. And we congregated
together just hundreds of people. And we were told that we
were unlawfully assembled and that we would have to disperse.
And we told them, you know, "This is our town. We pay taxes.
We can assemble any time we get ready." And they told us no,
we couldn't. And we went on about our business. You know.
Having the meeting and somebody--. I remember somebody saying,
"Look. They coming back. Look what they got." And they had
cattle trucks, driving up. And they told us to disperse, and
anybody that didn't disperse or leave, they would be arrested
and placed on the truck. So, some people did leave, but a
lot of people didn't. And I was one of the people that didn't
leave. So, I was thrown on a cattle truck. A truck that had
just come in with cows and had cow manure on it. They hadn't
cleaned the trucks. Yes.
Long: And then,
what did they say? Did they say, "You're under arrest"? Or--?
Washington:
They told us that we were under arrest. Yes. And they didn't
tell us a whole lot. To me, when they first did that, they
were trying to play a mind game with us. You know. They didn't
tell us where we were going or nothing. They just told us
to get on the truck. And after they got the truck loaded--.
Long: The policemen
were driving the truck?
Washington:
The policemen were driving the truck. Yes.
Long: And after
they got it loaded?
Washington:
After they got it loaded, they headed out of town, and I remember
us going down the road wondering where were they taking us
because they told us nothing. And we made it about ten miles
out of town, and some of us were saying they would probably
stop and make us walk back to town. You know. Then we got
fifteen miles out of town, and we were wondering. You know.
Twenty miles. And then, you know, we were kind of afraid of
what might happen. But they continued and the next thing we
knew we were looking up in the front of the penitentiary.
Long: Yeah.
Now, who were the drivers up front in the cattle truck? And
were they armed?
Washington:
They had arms. I don't remember the drivers being armed, but
they had Highway Patrol cars following behind us to make sure
no one could jump off. Yes.
Long: OK. Did
anybody think about it?
Washington:
Most of the people on the truck that I was on thought about
it. Yes. But we didn't. Yeah.
Long: Now,
you're driving into Parchman Prison.
Washington:
That's right. That's the state penitentiary of Mississippi.
Yes.
Long: And that's
up at?
Washington:
It's between what? Lambert and--.
Unidentified Voice:
Ruleville?
Washington:
Somewhere. Yeah, Lambert and Ruleville.
Long: So, you're
talking about the Delta.
Washington:
Yeah. Over in the Delta. Yes.
Long: And when
y'all saw that was Parchman they were taking you into, what
was your reaction?
Washington:
Different reactions. You know.
Long: What
was your reaction?
Washington:
My reaction was, "What's going on? Are they bringing us over
here just to scare us?" Because a thing we had heard, you
know--. To stay or what. We just didn't know what was about
to happen. Yes. So. You know.
Long: Tell
me what went on after you went through the gates.
Washington:
When we went through the gates, they stopped the trucks and
told us to get out. We went in and one by one, they took us
in a room supposedly to search us. And they, you know, disrobed
us. We had to undress and the thing that stood out in the
men's minds that the women were on the back of the truck,
and they left it right in the front of the building, and we
had to undress in front of everybody. You know. Yes. But they
continued to check you out in every orifice that you had.
You know. In your mouth. Under your arm. They checked everything.
Made you bend over and open your behind to check you and see
if you had anything.
Long: And the
young women on the truck were looking the whole time.
Washington:
Yeah. They could see us. Yeah.
Long: OK. They
didn't have anybody who was not nonviolent? Everybody just
went on and followed nonviolence?
Washington:
Everybody. Yes.
Long: Now,
what happened then?
Washington:
Then we were given cells. They took us to our cells and for
a while--I don't know how long, you know--you were in your
cell without any clothes. Yes.
Long: So, if
you wanted to wash off, where did you wash off?
Washington:
They had a little, small basin in there to wash in. Yes. And
a little toilet right there. You know. That everybody used.
That was in the cell.
Long: What
about the beds?
Washington:
The beds were metal. Metal beds. And they had no mattress
on them. No sheets. Just metal. And if you wanted to lay down,
you had to lay down on the metal.
Long: How many
people per cell? Your cell?
Washington:
I believe it was two. Just me and one more man in my cell.
Yeah.
Long: I see.
So, you each had a bed?
Washington:
Yes.
Long: But it's
metal?
Washington:
Yeah. It's metal. With no clothes and no covering. Yeah.
Long: How long
did that go on?
Washington:
Oh, we got over somewhere, I guess, in the afternoon, and
that went on till late in the night, when they brought us
clothes and covering. Yes.
Long: OK. Did
you get a chance to wash or anything?
Washington:
Nothing other than what you did right in the--.
Long: Right
in the [cell].
Washington:
Yes.
Long: OK. Now,
you had never been to jail before.
Washington:
Never been to jail in my life.
Long: What
were you thinking?
Washington:
I--. It was an experience. It really was. You know.
Long: How were
you feeling? I should ask.
Washington:
Well, in a way, afraid. Yes. Uh-huh.
Long: And how
old was the other person who was in your cell?
Washington:
Fifteen.
Long: Fifteen?
Washington:
Uh-huh. He was George Drinkwater[?], one of my closest friends.
Long: And how
did y'all pass the time? First of all, let's say how long
were you in Parchman?
Washington:
We were there, I believe, four or five days. Yes. Mm-hm.
Long: Tell
me how you spent the time.
Washington:
Spent the time singing. After we knew that we were there awhile,
spent the time singing and joking and everybody got kind of
loose. And, you know, not feeling like they wasn't going to
do anything to us, because they hadn't. So, just like we always
did, we were singing freedom songs.
Long: Like
what? What was you singing?
Washington:
"I Ain't Going to Let Nobody Turn Me Around." That was our
favorite song. No matter what they did, they weren't going
to turn us around. Yes. That was (inaudible). Yes.
Long: OK. Now,
after y'all endured five days, about, in Parchman Prison,
Mississippi, what happened?
Washington:
Then they came and got us and brought us back to Grenada.
Took us to the City Hall.
Long: Who came?
Washington:
The policemen. You know. Highway Patrolmen. Different people.
Yes.
Long: You went
to City Hall?
Washington:
We went to the city hall.
Long: And what
happened there?
Washington:
They took us in there in different rooms, trying to get us
to say that we would never march again. You know. That this
is it. And they couldn't convince anybody. It was about five
of us, and no one in there said that they wouldn't march again.
So, they threatened that we would have to go back to Parchman.
And you know, no one cared. No one I was with cared. Because
we said, "This is it. We tired of this treatment." Especially
the treatment we had just received; so, we wasn't going to
turn around. Yes.
Long: Right.
So, how did you get home.
Washington:
Well, they said they set the bail for us, and it was paid.
Long: I see.
Washington:
Yes. SCLC paid the bail.
Long: They
paid the bail?
Washington:
Yes. And we were all released.
Long: Uh-huh.
OK. Now, let's say you're coming home to your house that night.
Your mother and your father and your family are at home. Tell
me about the attitude.
Washington:
The attitude in my house was gladness that nothing had happened
to me. You know. Yeah. My father wasn't real outspoken on
the situation at all. I could tell. You know. He had one leg,
and I could tell by his expression that some of the things
he said, if he was able, he would have been right out there
with me. You know. Like I say, my mother did most of the work
for our family because she had a steady job in houses, kitchens.
So, all she said is she was glad we weren't hurt. Yeah.
Long: Had you
missed school?
Washington:
Yes, we missed school.
Long: So, tell
me about going back to school.
Washington:
Going back to school?
Long: Yeah.
You had to go--.
Washington:
I would say our teachers, the classes I was in, were glad
that we had done what we did. Yes. Mm-hm.
Long: That's
fine. And your best friends and other friends, did y'all have--.
What time of the year--. Just tell me about when that was.
Washington:
It was during the summer. Yeah.
Long: OK. So,
sports wasn't going on?
Washington:
Yes. Well, let me see. No. Sports wasn't going. That was when
we were in jail that the sports was going on.
Long: Sports
were going on when you were in jail?
Washington:
Yeah, one time we were in jail and some of the men in there,
some of the young men were playing. They were the football
stars at our school.
Long: And they
missed that.
Washington:
And they missed that. And that was the leverage that the policemen
tried to use on them to get them to stop marching. "We'll
let you out. You can go back to your school, play your game.
Because you know you're good. And you don't want to miss performing
in front of people." But no one left. Everybody stayed. Yes.
Long: Can you
think of anybody's name who was in that situation?
Washington:
I can name J.W. Kent[?], Billy Joe Kendall[?], and Emmett
Rimmer[?].
Long: And what
sport did they play?
Washington:
Football. Yeah.
Long: Y'all
pretty good?
Washington:
Oh, Grenada was good. (Laughter.) They were a championship
team. Yes.
Long: Did they
go ahead and win, anyway?
Washington:
They won. They won the championship that year.
Long: Without
the--?
Washington:
Without all the practices and stuff. That they missed. Yeah.
They did.
Long: Alright.
Now, I guess what I want to go to now is if you had to, in
retrospect, look back at what you did and how it was organized
and what it accomplished, what would you think? What would
you do different? Or would you do it?
Washington:
First of all, thinking back, I was just amazed at the things
that I found out about my own town, that I didn't know about.
Like the Grenada dam had all these facilities up here, and
we as black children knew nothing about it. Had a place to
swim, but we were going over in mud holes. You know risking
our lives swimming and doing different things, and you know,
we shouldn't have been doing it. So, thinking back on all
this stuff, I just think that we should have known more about
our town. You know. But I'm glad that SCLC came through. I'm
glad that God allowed them to come through. So, that was a
great thing. It really was.
Long: Which
church were you going to, then?
Washington:
I was going to Powell[?] Chapel A.M.E. Church on Plum Street.
Long: And you're
going to what church, now?
Washington:
I'm going to New Life Christian Fellowship Church. Yes.
Long: OK. And
the church where the meetings were being held was?
Washington:
Bellflower A.M.E. Church. Yeah. Baptist church. Yes.
Long: OK. Now,
did you ever see Dr. King when he came through?
Washington:
I saw him once. Saw him at Bellflower Church. Yes.
Long: Tell
me about your impression of--.
Washington:
Not knowing him too much, you know. To me it was just a man.
And then when I heard him speak, to me he was a great man.
A great black man that didn't mind standing up and telling
people, you know, what they should be about, and make you
realize the things you been missing out on all your life.
Yes.
Long: So, can
you tell me, was that at the beginning in sixty-six that you
saw him or was that later on before he was--? He came--.
Washington:
That was later on that I saw him. That was probably in sixty-seven
that I saw him. Yes.
Long: OK. And
anybody else with him that you heard preach or talk?
Washington:
Other than Hosea and Cottonreader and Leon, had a man named
Moe[?] Lester, and--.
Long: Big Lester?
Washington:
Yeah. Big Moe Lester. (Laughter.) That was my partner, there.
That was my partner. Big Moe Lester. I never will forget him.
Yeah.
Long: Did he
go to Parchman with your group?
Washington:
Oh, Lester went to Parchman with us. That's why it sticks
out so much. Just a man that would stand there and tell them,
you know, what I'm not going to do. What we're not going to
do, and just stand there flat-footed and let them know that
he wasn't. In fact, Moe Lester, in that trip, was beat. He
was beat, in the truck that we went to Parchman. Yes, he was
beaten pretty bad. Yes.
Long: Inside
the prison walls? Or, where did they get him? And by whom?
Washington:
I believe before, you know, before we left going there, he
was beaten because he was one of the leaders, per se. Yeah.
They were always handled rougher than anyone else. Yes. And
that was a way of discouraging the lesser ones as they thought.
Yes. But you know, nobody stopped.
Long: Mm-hm.
Mm-hm.
Washington:
Nobody stopped.
Long: OK. So,
back to that question. What would you have done differently?
And, you said what you did.
Washington:
Yes. Yes.
Long: How did
things change? I can go from it from there and then go back
to see, in retrospect.
Washington:
Things changed tremendously. You had a community of black
people, you know, together and seeking one goal. And this
is something that I miss. I really do. After seeing our communities,
now. I miss the togetherness, where you could call for a boycott
of this whole town in a meeting. Maybe it wasn't but fifty
people there in the whole town would get the word, and it
would be a boycott on whatever store that we said. Just in
a moment's time. And I miss that. Our community, that unity,
of black people. Our communities need to get back to that,
you know, camaraderie. They really do. Yes.
Long: And why
do you think we eased away from it? And what happened?
Washington:
We eased away from it thinking that we had arrived. You know.
Because we could go, now. When my people came to town, before,
if it was twenty of us, we had to go from house to house,
you know, in your family, trying to find somewhere for everybody
to sleep, because you couldn't get a motel room then. But
now, we can get motel rooms. We can go in the restaurant;
sit beside the white people. You know. Supposedly do everything
they do. So, now we have arrived, and we can get comfortable,
again. You know. New things that we can do.
Long: Did jobs
change?
Washington:
Jobs changed tremendously. Yes.
Long: What
did they used to do, and what are they doing now?
Washington:
On the jobs, you were doing the same jobs, you know, the same
with different people, and you were paid less, much less than
them. So, now, you know, the raises are not what they're supposed
to be. You know, for the same position, but they are way better
than they were. So, you know.
Long: Where
are you working now?
Washington:
I work at Binswanger Mirror. Yes.
Long: OK. Uh-huh.
So, you're working in a production situation.
Washington:
That's right. That's right.
Long: How long
have you been there?
Washington:
Thirteen years. Yeah.
Long: And what
is your job?
Washington:
My title is Glass Inspector. Mm-hm. Yes.
Long: You almost
arrived, haven't you?
Washington:
Oh, man! (Laughter.) Thinking back on the times, you know,
from then to now. Oh, yeah. I have arrived, and hadn't arrived.
(Laughter.) You know how that is. Yeah.
Long: Yeah.
You say, "We've come a long way,--."
Washington:
Long way.
Long: "But
we've still got--?"
Washington:
"Got a long way to go." (Laughter.) Yeah, we've got a long
ways to go.
Long: Yeah.
I know. But in terms of the salary then, versus the cost of
living then and the salary now versus the cost of living now,
it's about, what?
Washington:
[Whew!] It was better then. You know.
Long: That's
interesting.
Washington:
Yeah, it was better, then, because the cost of living now
is just out of sight. It really is.
Long: Mm-hm.
And then finally, there were some people who witnessed the
mule train. See, people get real confused when you say the
Meredith march going to Jackson, turn around from Jackson
coming back. [There was] a demonstration and so forth. And
then after King's death, the mule train in eighty-eight, in
seventy-eight, and sixties. We're talking about sixties. We're
talking about sixty-six and sixty-eight. OK.
Washington:
That's right. Sixty-six and sixty-eight, during the--. Yeah.
Long: Right.
So, do you remember, also, the mule train?
Washington:
No, I really don't.
Long: You don't
remember it coming through here?
Washington:
Yeah, I remember it coming through, but any of the details,
I missed that. I really did. Yeah.
Long: OK. That's
fine. In fact, that's in part I believe, why your testimony
is so good because some of the people I interview, they confuse
one thing with another. But yours is just crystal.
Washington:
Yeah. No. I can't.
Long: It happened
to you. You know when it happened. You know why it happened,
and you know what has resulted from it. And I'm proud of you.
This is a good interview. And finally, also, I'm wondering
about the city itself, and the leadership in the city, now.
During the time that there was unity in the community, when
did you see some things changing in terms of how black folks
work together for change. When did--.
Washington:
To me, after SCLC left, after the movement stopped, and, like
I said the people seemed to have things that they wanted that
they used to didn't have; then, the people got at ease, again.
Long: Right.
Who became the leaders, then? I don't have to know the names,
but--.
Washington:
Well, it's all right, because he's outspoken, and he's a good
man. Jasper Neely was the head of the NAACP, and that was
really our most vocal and outstanding black man in Grenada.
And he still is. Yes.
Long: OK. And
he heads the NAACP.
Washington:
Yes.
Long: Right.
And then, were there others were just steadfast throughout
that period, that you can think of?
Washington:
Yes. It was. Yes.
Long: OK. What
about somebody--? Mr. Neely wasn't able to go to work with
SCLC and go to jail, during that period of time. Can you think
of anybody from that period who has been steady? That may
have been young, then.
Washington:
Yeah. The main people were some of the people that you have
already interviewed, like Rosie Washington. She was always
there. You know. Henry Peacock. A lot of the younger people
because a lot of the older people had to work. Somebody had
to keep the household going, so, you know, it was a lot of
things they couldn't do. In order to, you know, make money.
But the younger people. You know. Headstrong, anyway. You
know. So, we had to do most of the footwork. Yeah.
Long: Y'all
were foot-soldiers.
Washington:
That's it. Yes.
Long: So, if
you had to compare what hasn't been done with what has been
done, in what area is that? Which is the weak area in Grenada
in terms of changes you wanted to see?
Washington:
Community development for black people. It's still not up
to par. It's a long way off. You know. They throw up a few
parks or playgrounds, that they call them, and throw a few
things in there, but it's really nothing that brings us up
to standard, for our kids. You know. We still don't have enough
good things because we still can see places that the white
people go, like the swimming pool they have from three to
maybe twelve feet deep. The swimming pool they built for the
black kids, per se, from three to five feet deep. You know.
It's still just unequal, and you can see this, and that's
why, you know, it makes me miss the days that the black people
were together. You know. Yes.
Long: Mm-hm.
And public funds constructed both pools?
Washington:
Both pools. Yes. Public funds. Yes.
Long: What
else can you think of?
Washington:
Well, up until about a year ago, we had black people doing
the same jobs working for the city and, you know, and not--.
But they gave a little raise to everyone, you know. But the
raises are still not equal, but the black people are making
way more than they used to make, and that's attributed to
the City Council. This is the body of people that determines
really most of the good stuff or bad stuff that goes on in
Grenada, and right now our city council, they have seven people
other than the mayor. And it's now four blacks and three whites,
and that's something that had never been. They always had
the deciding vote, but now we have that deciding vote, and
a few changes have been made. You know.
Long: What
about the county? In the county itself?
Washington:
In the county, it's really nothing in the way of development
that has happened for black people like it should in the county.
Everything that they do, or want to do, they have to come
to town. Yes.
Long: OK. I
see.
(End of tape one, side one.
The interview continues on tape one, side two.)
Long: And then,
look like they're building a whole lot out there near that
highway. Tell me about this. Development's happening.
Washington:
The development is happening, but it's real slow. It should
have been a long way ahead of what it is, now, because, to
me, living here all my life, I can see why it is. Because
they're trying to take this part of town forward and, say,
where I live, they're trying to leave this part of town behind.
And they don't realize that you can't go forward, pushing
one part off. All of it's got to go together. You know. Or
it won't work. And, you know. They have a hard time seeing
that. Yes.
Long: Have
you seen a change in politics in the state of Mississippi,
also? Since you've been around. Now, for instance, your mother
and father, when did they begin to vote?
Washington:
My mother and father didn't begin to vote until I did, around
sixty-seven. That was their first time voting. Yes. Sure was.
Long: Why weren't
they able to vote before?
Washington:
That is something that I never did talk to them about, but
I know that some of the people, some of my aunts at that same
age, had been discouraged from, you know, trying to vote.
Yes. You know, this is something that black people didn't
need to do.
Long: So, you
think voting has added to the strength?
Washington:
Aw, yes. Voting, it really has, because we're in a fight,
now, over voting rights, and there are a number of black people
in different wards. We have a fight going on, now, every year,
they're trying to get a redistricting plan together, because
it's too many blacks in different areas. And every time they
run for City Council, they lose. So, they're trying to, you
know, pool it together where it'll be more in their favor.
And so far, the government has stopped that at every turn.
Yes.
Long: OK. Let
me look at what happened with your children. And you, were
you able to go on and do some additional schooling, past high
school?
Washington:
No. I didn't go any further. High school was it.
Long: And then,
you went into the work place?
Washington:
Yes.
Long: Because
you got a | 
